Evaluation of camp observer

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally Posted by LarryS

Now, if it is early and the first signs of a problem (players just jawing and not close) I will get between them...if we have tried that, have been talking and asking the coaches for assistance and it still looks bad...I going to follow the sage advice of the camp clinicians.

That's the situation that I was referring to when I agreed that you can try to get in between players. As Dan said, if you can prevent the first shove, you're doing your job. Iow, if I think I can stop it from breaking out, fine. If they look like they're serious and are gonna go, no matter what, let their coaches and teammates break 'em up.

[OHBBREF]

Originally Posted by Jurassic Referee

That's the situation that I was referring to when I agreed that you can try to get in between players. As Dan said, if you can prevent the first shove, you're doing your job. Iow, if I think I can stop it from breaking out, fine. If they look like they're serious and are gonna go, no matter what, let their coaches and teammates break 'em up.

ditto to what he said!!!!!!!

[FrankHtown]

I think OHBBREF had a great point...was the game heading out of control in the first half? You may have stepped into a situation not of your making. I doubt at halftime the coaches told the players to take a well-played game and turn it into a brawl. It could have been this was festering for a whole half and finally exploded.

And I'd really get nervous about stepping in between two 6'5" guys for any reason.

[SMEngmann]

There are a lot of variables in the original situation that were not presented clearly. What type of camp was it? Was it a tryout camp for a college contract, or was it a learning camp for HS refs to become playoff eligible or for JV refs to move up to varsity? What is your experience level, and at what level are your partners for that game? Who is the evaluator? Obviously the evaluator is a more seasoned official, but is he a college ref, a head of an association or what? All of these questions serve to provide context for what happened, and the fact that this is a HS varsity game could mean many things, it could be the level you are used to working or a higher or lower level.

Based on the context of the post, I'll assume that the majority of your crew was officiating a game that is more competitive than what they are used to officiating and that the eval is likely a college ref. Part of the job of the evaluator is to keep control on the court and ensure that a game doesn't get stupid. When he saw a fight starting to break out, he took necessary action to prevent that based on his experience. It probably would be a good idea to take note of what he did and consider using some of it the next time you get into this type of a situation because the evaluator was clearly able to command respect and restore order, which is the job that the officials on the court usually have.

I think a letter or a word to the camp director is WHOLLY INAPPROPRIATE and it will make you look VERY, VERY, VERY BAD. The evaluator is there for a reason: in some way he has gained enough trust and respect from the camp director to be put in that position. Just because you, as a camper disagree with the evaluator's philosophy or handling of a situation doesn't mean you go complaining to the camp director because the only thing it will accomplish is painting you as a whiner and a troublemaker, two labels that will kill you politically. Take the advice and the criticism for what it's worth, learn from it or discard it, but ultimately use it or let it go. If there's a decision to be made about you, whether you're gonna improve your schedule or get hired, that decision is out of your hands, and if this incident prevents you from moving up, there's absolutely nothing you can do about it now, there's no appeal process. Continuing to pursue this issue out of anger certainly won't help you out now, and it may very well destroy your chances in the future rather dropping it, which would allow you to come back next year with a clean slate.

[lrpalmer3]

1. The best referees know how to control a game.
2. Once players shove each other, the game is out of control.
3. Never believe that you did all you could do to stop a fight. You could always have done more.
4. The clinician, being a referee who knows how to control a game, took control of the situation.
5. You are spending too much time thinking about what he did, rather than figure out what your role was in the game getting out of control.
6. Focus your thoughts on the time that you walked onto the floor until the time that the players pushed each other. That will make you a better official, which is why we attend camp in the first place, right?

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally Posted by lrpalmer3

2. Once players shove each other, the game is out of control.
3. Never believe that you did all you could do to stop a fight. You could always have done more.

Imo both of those points are utter nonsense.

[lrpalmer3]

Jurrasic,

You and your assignor are watching the tape of a game you worked and the players in the game start to push each other. Could you look your assignor in the eye and say that you had everything under control?

Number 3 was a sweeping generalization. Forgive me. I should have said that you could USUALLY have done something different to prevent a fight.

[LarryS]

I disagree that once players shove each other the game is out of control. There are couple of players out of control, but dealing with them and talking to the teams may very well result in a good game from that point forward.

I also got the impression that the evaluator berated the OP on the floor. If that is not the case, then the poster is being overly sensitive.

However, If that is the case, IMO, that was uncalled for. Maybe something needed to be said to get their attention or get them refocused. Sage advice at that point was certainly needed and probably would have been welcomed. In the privacy of the tape room if there was something obvious the officials missed or screwed up...that is the appropriate time to dress them down. Doing so in public is unprofessional. For me, I couldn't care less if a clinician is the greatest official to ever put on a striped shirt...he should still conduct himself professionally when working at a camp. I have seen evaluators at camps rip an official a new arse hole in front of everyone...including spectators and players. I often wonder how they would feel if they were the one being humiliated or, if it has happened to them, if they remember how they felt during those moments. I also wonder if the target when that is happening is not simply hearing "Blah, blah, blah, blah"?

[Mark Dexter]

Originally Posted by lrpalmer3

3. Never believe that you did all you could do to stop a fight. You could always have done more.

That's really not true for every situation. Sometimes, you can't see them coming and other times, you can see it happening, but it's too late or too heated.

Like the line in Good Will Hunting, when a fight does break out, "it's not your fault."

[OHBBREF]

Originally Posted by Mark Dexter

Like the line in Good Will Hunting, when a fight does break out, "it's not your fault."

I disagree -and I have had a fight break out on my court that seemd to come out of nowhere. but upon reviewing the tape there were obvious signs of it - the little chips on people going through the lane - the chicken wings in the post - a little push here or a shove there - that if addressed verbally or with a whistle could have kept things in line.
Granted there may be that immediate blow up from one spectacular incident that just happened which is the exception not the rule.

But as an observer told me this year and I believe it was from another NBA official at Joe Derosa's Camp "If a fight Breaks out on your court it is your fault".
When the film gets to the assignor and the conference people who and what are they going to be looking at - the way the officials handled the game what could they have done to prevent this.

[refprof]

Thank you all for your advice. You have given me greater insight into the situation and how to handle it correctly.

Space limited my description of the event, but it was evident, as Zebraman detected, I was and still am angry about the actions of the observer. Due to space, I did not mention that we have had a run in previously so we have a history. But, reading the comments of all board members, maybe the observer has a point.

For Zebraman: the camp was an instructional not a formal tryout for new assignments. There is no tape of the games. I am sure the observer would have a different story, but that is in his nature. Every other observer and clinician I have worked with has been supportive and educational; they would not yell at a student, “It’s all your fault!!!!” Hey, I was the guy who called the off-ball foul that started the whole deal! In fact, I was angry that he picked on me. Now I realize that at least he was talking to me! He was angry at everyone that the game on HIS court got out of control. But to his credit, he did spend 3 min talking to me after the event, trying to teach me to take this attitude into every game; this is MY game and it will be played the way I was taught is correct.

For OHBBREF: while we were watching the first half, I was reviewing procedures with my partners. The game seemed to be a normal game, although the teams had a hard time scoring. As a camp game, with 2 others on either side, it was hardly a normal situation. But, instead of talking amongst ourselves about the game getting rougher once we noticed it, we should have found the time to talk to the coaches. Good point.

For SNEngman. As above, it was a learning camp, focusing on 3 man mechanics which is slowly entering our area. I have worked 12 yrs in the Midwest and east coast. Last year I did large school JV, small school varsity and JUCO ball. My partners were 2- and 4- yrs. The evaluator was the assignor for an adjoining school league. The evaluator was an experienced DI referee. Having learnt an important lesson, I will seriously consider going back to that camp next year – with a different attitude.
Your final advice will be followed – it is very good advice. No one can misquote you if don’t say anything.

For Irpalmer3: #5 and #6. Obviously, we (all 3 of the crew) were too busy focused on where we stand and where we look to see the overall degree of deterioration of the game. We were focused on US not them.

Thank you all for helping. You have given at least me, a better insight into these events, and more importantly, how I can use this experience to officiate to a higher standard.

[refprof]

For LarryS: Your assumption is correct, the evaluator berated me on the floor. That is a source of my anger. Since I teach (Professor of Medicine) that is unprofessional behavior from any teacher. In the moment, I had to work hard not to hear only, “Blah, blah, etc.”
Your final thought is most appropriate, “I didn't say it was your fault...I said I was going to blame you!” When I run into him at my next camp in July, I will probably pull him over and thank him for his lesson, but critique him on his methods.