Block/Charge?

[Old School]

Originally Posted by Dan_ref

Bullsh1t.

The T had the better angle. The L was ahead of the play and across the floor, not even with it and across the floor.

That's BS, you don't understand position. There is no way the new T can determine the defensive players position (legal or otherwise) from the baseline. The new L has the best angle/look to get that play, or in 3 person, the center official. No way can the new T make a accurate judgment of that call from the baseline and the contact happen at mid-court. Plus, to add, he would have been seriously straight-lined. If the contact happen on the other side of the court, without a player/s stepping in front of him, he's got a better chance to make a ruling. On this play, not a chance....

[M&M Guy]

Your turn, Dan.

[Dan_ref]

Originally Posted by M&M Guy

Your turn, Dan.

Me?

Nah.

It's victory enough that it disagrees with me.

:shrug:

[M&M Guy]

Originally Posted by Dan_ref

Me?

Nah.

It's victory enough that it disagrees with me.

:shrug:

Dang it; I'm disappointed.

I'm goin' to lunch then if there's nothing to watch here.

[Mark Dexter]

Is anyone else having trouble with this video? It seems that I can get any YouTube video to load except for the two that have been posted on the basketball forum.

[Old School]

Originally Posted by Bad Zebra

Let me understand your thinking here. You're going to base a call on how you THINK players will respond the rest of the game?

Damn right. I'm sending the message right now. Don't want players running underneath other players after they catch the ball in an attempt to draw the foul. Would you want someone to run underneath you everytime you catch the ball with your back turned? Damn right, this is how the games going to be called today.

Originally Posted by Bad Zebra

Wouldn't it be safer to APPLY A RULE here? or at least try to reason through it based upon a rule or your interpretation of how the play relates to a rule? Isn't that kinda what officials do?

Totally agree, but disagree with the "safer" term you used here. Safety has nothing to do with the rule. It's about getting there first. I seemed the worse type of falls when a player runs underneath another player and he loses his balance and lands very hard, very awkward. It is not safe to run underneath a player who can not see you coming, in any forum of basketball, even though by NFHS rule it is legal. This is why the professionals removed this from their rules. You must give a player a step, or before the player takes his final step to shoot. I will admit one thing about your statement bad zebra, this is one reason why I call a block on this type of play, for "safety" reasons.

9 times out of ten, that play is going to be rule a block anyway. With these type of odds, I would teach my players to go for the steal of the ball instead of trying to draw the offensive foul. Not saying I'm right. I'm just saying the odds are more in my favor to get the steal than the offensive foul.

[BLydic]

I don't understand the problem with the new L making this call. Aren't we supposed to transition with our heads turned toward and no further ahead of the play than necessary?

The new T was still on the baseline when the contact occurred. The new L was not even in the picture, so he could very well have had been in a good position to make the call.

However, based on the lack of an immediate signal, the uncertain stroll to the table (and the fact that he made the wrong call), it would have been easier to just use the quarter.

Great justification for a 3rd person.

[Old School]

Originally Posted by Jurassic Referee

Amazing, isn't it? I can see any official maybe missing a bang-bang call like this in real time. What I can't see is anybody trying to justify whatever call they made by using the nonsense that OS comes up with.

So safety of the players is nonsense. As long as everytime that play occurs in my game I call it a block. Nobody going to have a problem with it, except maybe you and your click of stress out officials. Easy call for me, I'll sleep good tonight.

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by Old School

So safety of the players is nonsense. As long as everytime that play occurs in my game I call it a block. Nobody going to have a problem with it, except maybe you and your click of stress out officials. Easy call for me, I'll sleep good tonight.

I just had to say something. The rules are in place for a reason. Basketball is a contact sport. Safety is not a factor unless the rules spell it out. You cannot just make it up because you have a personal issue with safety. If the players want to be safe, play chess. This is a contact sport where people are trying to prevent movement. Next then you will tell us that you will call an illegal screen on a player because no one told the screener that a screen was coming. After all you have to maintain safety for a legal play because there is a possibility someone might get hurt right?

You are one of the most incompetent people I have ever read on this board. My God, when will you get a clue? It appears to be never.

Peace

[SmokeEater]

Its like a really bad car wreck! You just can't look away. Gee I hope no one gets hurt in there.......

[Adam]

Originally Posted by Old School

Now, you go and call offense, next thing you know, you got guys running up underneath each other the rest of the game. I'm not trying to find the needle in the haystack. We're going to keep it simple. Also, the defender should have gone for the steal of the ball instead of trying to draw the tough call from the official. Odds or not in the players favor to get the correct call here, but the way the offensive player turned and stepped, chances where better of stealing the ball here.

You go and call PC foul here, and before you know it, you have guys playing defense all game. We can't have that, now, can we?

As for what's in red above, you're not a coach. We can't make calls based on whether we think the kid made the "smarter" play; only whether he made a legal play. I can just see it now; "Coach, your kid was fouled, but I didn't call it because he hasn't made his free throws all night and he should have taken the three-point shot rather than drive the lane and hope for a tough call from the officials."

[M&M Guy]

Originally Posted by Old School

Damn right.

It is not safe to run underneath a player who can not see you coming, in any forum of basketball, even though by NFHS rule it is legal.

You must give a player a step, or before the player takes his final step to shoot. I will admit one thing about your statement bad zebra, this is one reason why I call a block on this type of play, for "safety" reasons.

A wise man once said, "It is better for a man to remain silent, and have people think he is a fool, than for that man to open his mouth and remove all doubt." Congratulations - you have removed any doubt.

C'mon, quit drinking that Kool-Aid that coaches and players are feeding you, Old School. You have just admitted you would base you calls or no-calls on what you, or other people feel is "safe", vs. actually using the rules. That's too bad.

If you are an official, it is officials like you that give the rest of us bad names. Hey, don't shoot the messenger.

[Old School]

Originally Posted by Snaqwells

You go and call PC foul here, and before you know it, you have guys playing defense all game. We can't have that, now, can we?

As for what's in red above, you're not a coach. We can't make calls based on whether we think the kid made the "smarter" play; only whether he made a legal play. I can just see it now; "Coach, your kid was fouled, but I didn't call it because he hasn't made his free throws all night and he should have taken the three-point shot rather than drive the lane and hope for a tough call from the officials."

Are we getting a little off-track here? Better break out the popcorn.

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally Posted by Old School

So safety of the players is nonsense. As long as everytime that play occurs in my game I call it a block. Nobody going to have a problem with it, except maybe you and your click of stress out officials. Easy call for me, I'll sleep good tonight.

Naw, your calls are nonsense. You don't know or understand basic rules concepts. That's why it is such an easy call for you in your rec league games to call this play a block. The reason that the players also might not have a problem with your calls in your rec league games is that they don't know any better either. It's rec league, not organized basketball. Fortunately, real, live, honest-to-goodness basketball officials do know the difference, and none of them would ever agree with you.

For all of you non-Old Schools reading, Bob Jenkins laid out the basics of what to look for in his post #3. NFHS rules 4-23-2 and 4-23-4(a) tell you how to call the play. That's why the correct call is a charge. NCAA rules are the same.

[Scrapper1]

I realize that we're not going to get Old School's account pulled. So how about if I'm deputized as a moderator only for purposes of deleting his posts? Plus, I'll delete the porn spam from the General Forum (after forwarding any pictures to Jurassic, of course).