Whats the world comming to?

[Jimgolf]

Originally Posted by Ref in PA

OS, Maybe it is time to take a critical look as to why you have so many examples to share with us.

Bingo!!!!!!!

[Adam]

Originally Posted by Old School

Where did I say that? Why don't you read what I say as opposed to trying to interpret what I didn't say. I said that if a kid gets beat to a bloody mess on your court where a ambulance has to be called and the kids face has to be re-attached. It sounds a little suspicious to me. This got nothing to do with prevention. This is after the fact. One kid, beating another and ref's didn't see it. I suppose it could happen, but to the extent it did is what's questionable to me.

Especially if you can't get the story right.

The OP said the kid got about three good shots in. Only superman or The Flash could have prevented that when it happens in the midst of game action. It's you who needs to read what other people say before jumping to conclusions.

[Old School]

Originally Posted by Ref in PA

OS, aren't you the ref who advocates subbing players out of the game as they become problems? Why did you not do this? You have told everyone else to do this in past threads. Sounds like you did not take your own management advice.

What!!!!!

Originally Posted by Ref in PA

As others repeatedly have pointed out, your advice on game management has little worth, your comments on rules have even less worth. You always seem to have an example from your own games of things going wrong - no matter the topic. Maybe it is time to take a critical look as to why you have so many examples to share with us.

Shoot the messenger. I understand that when you have nothing of value to add to this discussion you try to attack the credibility of the messenger, trying to make it about me. Nice try but this is not about me. A kid was beat up on the court and by the time we realize what happen it was too late for the kid. For a kid to get beat up to this extent does leave some doubt. It's okay if you don't like my advice because I could care less about yours as well. I simply try to show a different side of the issue because only one side has been painted here.

I would take it personally if a kid was beat to the extent the OP stated on my court while I'm working. Nobody is throwing any punches between the rectangle box today that I don't see immediately and try to get control of. Nobody is going out in a ambulance for being beat up on my court either. They may need an ambulance because they made an athletic play and hurt themselves, but not for getting beat up by a player on the opposite team. I got some more advice for you, but it's okay if you don't like it. You are supposed to watch "all" ten players at "all" times when the ball is live. Oh, and guess what, that's not in the rulebook either but it is true.

As far as my examples. It's because I get out there and work some games. I don't stay at home all day and read the rulebook when I don't have nothing to do. I get out there and work and things happen. Something you should try to do instead of attacking someone who does, and then maybe you will have some story's to tell.

[rainmaker]

Originally Posted by Old School

I would take it personally if a kid was beat to the extent the OP stated on my court while I'm working. Nobody is throwing any punches between the rectangle box today that I don't see immediately and try to get control of. Nobody is going out in a ambulance for being beat up on my court either. They may need an ambulance because they made an athletic play and hurt themselves, but not for getting beat up by a player on the opposite team. I got some more advice for you, but it's okay if you don't like it. You are supposed to watch "all" ten players at "all" times when the ball is live. Oh, and guess what, that's not in the rulebook either but it is true.

This looks great on paper, and it probably works when you're reffing 3rd and 4th grade, but there's no way it's 100% possible when working with any players over the age of 11. They're too fast, too athletic for you to be in complete control. I don't care what you say on this board, but I do want others to understand that your little diatribes don't have a lot to do with reality.

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally Posted by Old School

1) I understand that when you have nothing of value to add to this discussion you try to attack the credibility of the messenger, trying to make it about me. Nice try but this is not about me.

2) For a kid to get beat up to this extent does leave some doubt.

3) You are supposed to watch "all" ten players at "all" times when the ball is live. Oh, and guess what, that's not in the rulebook either but it is true.

4) I don't stay at home all day and read the rulebook when I don't have nothing to do.

1) You don't have any credibility. That's because you haven't added anything of value here since McGriffs closed and you found this site, JMO. It's about you because you keep trying to comment on something you know absolutely nothing about--officiating.

2) You're the only one that thinks that it's the official's fault. That's because you don't have a clue what officiating is really about.

3) No, you're supposed to watch the players in your primary. That sureashell IS in the Mechanics Manual, which is another book that you don't happen to own.

4) How can you read something that you don't have?

[Old School]

Originally Posted by Jurassic Referee

1) You don't have any credibility. That's because you haven't added anything of value here since McGriffs closed and you found this site, JMO. It's about you because you keep trying to comment on something you know absolutely nothing about--officiating.

2) You're the only one that thinks that it's the official's fault. That's because you don't have a clue what officiating is really about.

3) No, you're supposed to watch the players in your primary. That sureashell IS in the Mechanics Manual, which is another book that you don't happen to own.

4) How can you read something that you don't have?

Of course this is not about a kid who was beat up so bad in a basketball game that was officiated by certified officials, that an ambulance had to be called to this game. Of course this is not about that! Why don't you review your statistics and tell us how many times kids in an organized event has been beat up so bad that an ambulance had to be called and the kids faced re-attached?

Now I don't think it's the officials fault either, I'm just raising the doubt because of the extenuating circumstances here. I mean if we're going to let kids beat each other up to this extent, we might as well not even be there. That is my point. Why do the game? Since you are not able to stop a kid from getting his face bash in. If we are going to take responsibility and do the game, then we need to bare some responsibility to what happened in the game. You can not get around this, which means it is not about me or my credibility or some character on the McGriff board. Neither of us have all the information we need to judge here, but I think I have more than you to make a reasonable judgment. I have a injured kid who needed hospitalization, fact. You have the referee's word, unproven, and no one else to substantiate. Yet you are dead sure the referee is not at fault. Well, you don't have enough information to be dead sure. It matters not to me that you are all in agreement that this is not the officials fault because these are some of the questions that are going to need to be answered.

I'm not looking to place blame here but I am interested in understanding more about what happened here and challenging your assertion that the referee is not at fault. If he is not at fault, then his statement should stand up to ridicule. So far it has not, and you know how I can tell. Because the conversation has turned personal.

[M&M Guy]

Originally Posted by Old School

Now I don't think it's the officials fault either, I'm just raising the doubt because of the extenuating circumstances here.

Well, in post #24 of this thread, you did say it was the official's fault:

Originally Posted by Old School

I'm just saying if some kid gets his head beat in to the point of unconsiousness, and has to be rushed to the hospital, you didn't do your job very well as an official, period. If I'm the assigner, I'm probably not going to assign you anymore games, period.

Can you give me any specific examples, or a reasonable explanation, as to how two kids wailing on each other can be the official's fault?

[Old School]

Originally Posted by M&M Guy

Well, in post #24 of this thread, you did say it was the official's fault

Originally Posted by Old School
I'm just saying if some kid gets his head beat in to the point of unconsciousness, and has to be rushed to the hospital, you didn't do your job very well as an official, period. If I'm the assigner, I'm probably not going to assign you anymore games, period.:

If you read what I said, I said you didn't do your job very well, not that it was your fault.

Originally Posted by M&M Guy

Can you give me any specific examples, or a reasonable explanation, as to how two kids wailing on each other can be the official's fault?

#1) I didn't say it was the officials fault. #2.) My interpretation is that one kid was wailing on another, who was not fighting back. The kid had gained an advantage and was laying on the floor getting his head beat in to the point of unconsciousness. In professional hockey where fighting is allowed, they don't let you beat an opponent until they are unconscious.

You see, I fear we had two officials of a different ethnic background, let some inner city kids beat the crap out of each other before they decided to get involved. I have already heard the comment stupid monkeys, which I interpret to mean black folks. Again, this is my fear, and because I fear it does not make it a matter of fact. It also does not make any difference to us as officials what color you are. Once the ball becomes live you are responsible for everything that happens on that floor until the game is over.

Like the example I used. After the kid kicked the player, I could have stepped back and just let them go at it, let them burn off some aggression. I have seen officials just stand there and do nothing, let the players decide it, waiting to administrator technicals afterwards, etc. I'm wondering if that didn't happen here. If it's adults, maybe you better stand back but if you notice, the biggest strongest most athletic men in the world, the NBA officials don't let them go at it. Why? It's because they love what they do and none of them is going to have that crap on their court. Did you notice how the official grabbed Steve Nash, preventing him from throwing a blow and thus getting tossed out the game and suspended as well. The official did that to protect the player because Nash was going to nail him. Go back and watch it, it was one of the most outstanding things the official did in that series that went unnoticed.

When you love what you do, these things don't happen on your court. When you are just out there to draw a check, I guess it's not your fault, stupid monkeys...

[SmokeEater]

Originally Posted by Old School

... Neither of us have all the information we need to judge here, but I think I have more than you to make a reasonable judgment. I have a injured kid who needed hospitalization, fact. You have the referee's word, unproven, and no one else to substantiate. Yet you are dead sure the referee is not at fault. Well, you don't have enough information to be dead sure. ...

Fact: By your own admission there is not enough information or substantiated evidence to make judgement. period. Yet you continue to insinuate that the officials did not do their job completely, thereby allowing a player get assaulted. The fact there is an injury only proves there was an assault, NOT that there was negligence on anyones part. You can dance all around the wording if you like. I have read every post in here and you sir, Old School, have repeatedly said indirectly that the officials were indeed responsible for the assault and any actions taken or not after. This is IMO, unfair to the officials. Since none of us were there, the OP was and therefore has the most credibility. It is with that being said. I take his word at value and make no judgement. I learn from the incident and hope it doesn't happen on my court.

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally Posted by Old School

You see, I fear we had two officials of a different ethnic background, let some inner city kids beat the crap out of each other before they decided to get involved. I have already heard the comment stupid monkeys, which I interpret to mean black folks. Again, this is my fear, and because I fear it does not make it a matter of fact.

No, "silly monkey" translates to "stoopid idiot". It's got nothing to do with race and never has. And there isn't another description around that could be be more apt when it comes to describing you, JMO.

There was absolutely no reason to bring race into this thread, and your trying to do so shows exactly what kind of person that you are. The ethnic background of the officials OR the players has never been brought up in this thread. There was no reason to because it wasn't a factor. If it was, the original poster sureashell mighta mentioned it. And howinthehell do you know what race the officials were btw? That's just another terrible, ridiculous slur against the original poster, Philz. Now you're intimating that Philz and his partner stood back and let one kid kick the snot out of another kid just because they were black. Well, that's just completely freaking wrong! That's a terrible statement for one supposed official to say about another. You're looking for any pathetic reason to back your moronic claim that it was the official's fault, and when all else fails, pull the damn race card. Well, that's just sad and you're just sad.

Silly monkey.