lets keep them comming

[James Neil]

A 2/2 50. Team A leaves the huddle and the entire team comes to a one second stop. End A88 then goes out along his line and stops. Back A22 then moves backward and the ball is snapped less than one second after end A88 had stopped. The QB muffs the snap at the A48. The ball hits the ground at the A48 and B21 bats the ball, which goes out of bounds at the A46.

all options and dont forget the clock !

[Mike Simonds]

Illegal shift by A88 because he was not set for at least one full second prior to the snap. (Can he also be guilty of illegal motion because he did not retreat 5 yards behind his line?).

Illegal motion by A22 because he started moving before A88 was set for one second.

Illegal batting by B21.

Double foul prior to a change of team possession. Team captains are not consulted. Result would be to replay the down from the previous spot. Clock will start on the snap because the ball was out of bounds.

[HighSchoolWhiteHat]

iF IM READING THIS RIGHT i HAVE A DEAD BALL FALSE START ON A22. HE MOVED BACKWARDS.

NOTHING ELSE MATTERS NOW

5 YARDS BACK REPLAY DOWN

[JMN]

I've got a live ball illegal shift on A, and a live ball illegal batting of the ball by B. The two live ball fouls cancel each other out. We go back to the original line of scrimmage and replay the down.

[Derock1986]

Originally posted by HighSchoolWhiteHat
iF IM READING THIS RIGHT i HAVE A DEAD BALL FALSE START ON A22. HE MOVED BACKWARDS.

NOTHING ELSE MATTERS NOW

5 YARDS BACK REPLAY DOWN

I agree with HSWH (so he must be wrong).

[AndrewMcCarthy]

Originally posted by Derock1986
I agree with HSWH (so he must be wrong).

Agreed.

[JMN]

Maybe I'm missing something, but isn't it possible that A22 was beginning to go in motion and just left too soon? If this is possible, then couldn't you call an illegal shift and leave it at that. Why are you guys calling this a false start (dead ball) instead of allowing the play to progress and calling a live ball foul?

HSWH, What's the significance of A22's backward movement other than directional?

[AndrewMcCarthy]

This wouldn't be a false start. It's an illegal shift. It isn't illegal motion since there was only 1 player in motion at the snap and he wasn't moving towards the opponent's goal line.

Oh- and I only agreed with D-Rock that HSWH was wrong.

[ABoselli]

Right. Illegal shift.

...and the ball is snapped less than one second after end A88 had stopped. That's the very definition of an illegal shift (or one of them). I'm a little unclear as to the time line, though. If A88 moved out to a new position on the line and stopped and then A22 moved backward and this all happened in that span of time that lasted less than one second, it was a pretty speedy move backwards by A22. Either way, A88 has to be set for one full second before 1)the ball can be snapped and b) another player goes in motion. Live ball - offsetting with the illegal bat, previous spot, start it on the snap as the ball was OB.

[bigwhistle]

I am not sure about NF, but in NCAA the one second rule only applies if there has been more than one person in motion at the same time. In the play senerio given, that was not the case. 88 moved and then stopped. Then the back moved backwards. Therefore the play would have been legal.

The only foul I saw in the play was the illegal batting by B, since he batted the ball forward. Since this happened behind the line of scrimmage, it would be 15 yards from the previous spot, which would result in a 1st down for Team A, since they were only 2 yards shy of the line to gain when the play started.

[KWH]

Big whistle is correct for NCAA as per Approved Ruling 7-1-4-IV, Page FI-34.

NFHS rules differ however!
A22 committed an illegal shift as he did not wait 1 second after A88 became set before he (A88) started his shift.
See NFHS Casebook 7.2.7 SITUATION: (b)

B21 Committs an illegal bat a per NFHS 9-7-2

Double Foul as per NFHS 10-2-1
Penalties cancel and the down is replayed!

[James Neil]

Originally posted by KWH
Big whistle is correct for NCAA as per Approved Ruling 7-1-4-IV, Page FI-34.

NFHS rules differ however!
A22 committed an illegal shift as he did not wait 1 second after A88 became set before he (A88) started his shift.
See NFHS Casebook 7.2.7 SITUATION: (b)

B21 Committs an illegal bat a per NFHS 9-7-2

Double Foul as per NFHS 10-2-1
Penalties cancel and the down is replayed!

AGREE !

[sm_bbcoach]

So we ALL agree; that backwards motion is irrelevent. It is the dbl foul of ill shift (a22) and ill batting (b21). Replay down, clock begins at snap.

Now, lets add something to this. What if a22's action (moving backwards) simulated the snap (picked up real quick and stepped backwards). THIS is now the false start. Dead play. Nothing else matters? There would be no ill shift (due to no snap happening).Correct????

[KWH]

Originally posted by sm_bbcoach
So we ALL agree; that backwards motion is irrelevent. It is the dbl foul of ill shift (a22) and ill batting (b21). Replay down, clock begins at snap.

Now, lets add something to this. What if a22's action (moving backwards) simulated the snap (picked up real quick and stepped backwards). THIS is now the false start. Dead play. Nothing else matters? There would be no ill shift (due to no snap happening).Correct????

Yes, if A22's action simulates action at the snap, (and it did as you described) Then we have a dead ball false start and the play is blown dead at that point.
5 yard penalty, and repeat the down - NFHS 7-1-7a

[mikesears]

Originally posted by KWH

Yes, if A22's action simulates action at the snap, (and it did as you described) Then we have a dead ball false start and the play is blown dead at that point.
5 yard penalty, and repeat the down - NFHS 7-1-7a

Let's hope we don't have a repeat of the down