Whats the world comming to?

[Adam]

Just a thought, but maybe you could have told them to quit the talking sooner.

[Old School]

Originally Posted by Snaqwells

Just a thought, but maybe you could have told them to quit the talking sooner.

I tried. I gave multiple warnings, I grab 2 players and told them to not talk to here other anymore, but the minute they lined up next to each other on the F/T line, there was a conversation going on. Since it was not obvious, no one suspected the worse except me. One other thing, you really can't give a technical to a player and you don't hear what he actually says, even if you suspect the worse. I guess I have never seen a group of players politely and softly go about it in the way that was done here, never, but my suspicion was confirmed.

[Adam]

Yes, you can give them a T. It might be a case where you stop everything and warn them, if you so much as here "nice shot" directed to an opponent, it's a technical foul. Tell the coaches if you must.

[Old School]

Originally Posted by Snaqwells

Yes, you can give them a T. It might be a case where you stop everything and warn them, if you so much as here "nice shot" directed to an opponent, it's a technical foul. Tell the coaches if you must.

Not going there Snaqs, maybe you will give a player a T for saying nice shot, but not me. That will never happen in my game. I'm not looking to overofficiate the game, just manage it, that's all. If the players are being polite to one another, that is what I want. However, the point here is to pay attention to the players. Get in there and listen if you have too. I have had games come down to F/T's and players on the line or directly behind the shooter, say things you would not believe, like if you make this shot, I'm going to kick your a$$. If you're standing way over there by the sideline, you will not even know a conversation is taken place. The OP didn't think something was wrong in his game. Well he was wrong and both him and his partner missed the signs from the players that something wasn't right.

[ChrisSportsFan]

Originally Posted by Old School

If it was truely an AAU event. AAU has insurance and liability over this incident. Couple things different I would have done, or it sounds like it didn't get done. The player doing the fighting is ejected, #name in the book. If you didn't do this, then maybe something might come after you. Did you call the game? The team and the AAU will get sued, not you.

I had one this past weekend, but I was able to see it coming, but I had to work at it to determine. What I mean is that the kids where talking to each other under their breath where we could not hear them. On the F/T lines, they where talking to each other again, but very softly. After one scored on the other, lot of soft talking. The only thing I needed to determine was if this conversation was pleasent or not. It took awhile and I started getting closer to the players to try to hear what was being said. Yea, we got a problem here and my partners didn't even know it. What ended up happening was late in the game, a open court foul, nothing bad here, I got the call. Before I could report, the kid that was foul, kicked the living sh!t out of the player that fouled him, which I ran in with a Flargrant Technical Foul, which the other kid retaliated with a shove of his own, now I got another Flagrant Technical foul, my first, and it was a double. So I ended up with a double flagrant technical foul, both parties ejected.

The story doesn't end. We get back to the game, which ended with no more controversy, but the underneath talking didn't stop. So when the game was over and they all went thru and shook each overs hand, now everybody grouped up and going back to their benches, the talking started again, and it was about to explore. I monitored the handshake, which is something I normally don't do. Afterwards, I immedately jumped into the center of both teams and told them to quite talking to each other, the game is over, go to your benches!!! My partners where on the other side of the court getting ready to leave, they didn't even know and maybe they didn't care. Once I got the teams separated, and everyone was headed towards there benches, backs to each other, I turned it over to the coaches and I got the hell out of there. As I was leaving, I had a couple of parents thank me for my efforts.

O-NO-YOU-DIDN'T, you did not manage your game very well unless you're on a 1 man crew. I don't care if your partners were complete dolts, YOU should have communicated with them to make sure YOUR team was on the same page. You might have talked to the players, they maybe didn't listen so you talked to them again, maybe they listened for a minute but then went back to yackin. How many warnings do they get before you T? How many warnings do you give players before you let your partners in on it? What a joke!

[Ref in PA]

Originally Posted by Old School

If it was truely an AAU event. AAU has insurance and liability over this incident. Couple things different I would have done, or it sounds like it didn't get done. The player doing the fighting is ejected, #name in the book. If you didn't do this, then maybe something might come after you. Did you call the game? The team and the AAU will get sued, not you.

I had one this past weekend, but I was able to see it coming, but I had to work at it to determine. What I mean is that the kids where talking to each other under their breath where we could not hear them. On the F/T lines, they where talking to each other again, but very softly. After one scored on the other, lot of soft talking. The only thing I needed to determine was if this conversation was pleasent or not. It took awhile and I started getting closer to the players to try to hear what was being said. Yea, we got a problem here and my partners didn't even know it. What ended up happening was late in the game, a open court foul, nothing bad here, I got the call. Before I could report, the kid that was foul, kicked the living sh!t out of the player that fouled him, which I ran in with a Flargrant Technical Foul, which the other kid retaliated with a shove of his own, now I got another Flagrant Technical foul, my first, and it was a double. So I ended up with a double flagrant technical foul, both parties ejected.

The story doesn't end. We get back to the game, which ended with no more controversy, but the underneath talking didn't stop. So when the game was over and they all went thru and shook each overs hand, now everybody grouped up and going back to their benches, the talking started again, and it was about to explore. I monitored the handshake, which is something I normally don't do. Afterwards, I immedately jumped into the center of both teams and told them to quite talking to each other, the game is over, go to your benches!!! My partners where on the other side of the court getting ready to leave, they didn't even know and maybe they didn't care. Once I got the teams separated, and everyone was headed towards there benches, backs to each other, I turned it over to the coaches and I got the hell out of there. As I was leaving, I had a couple of parents thank me for my efforts.

OS, aren't you the ref who advocates subbing players out of the game as they become problems? Why did you not do this? You have told everyone else to do this in past threads. Sounds like you did not take your own management advice.

As others repeatedly have pointed out, your advice on game management has little worth, your comments on rules have even less worth. You always seem to have an example from your own games of things going wrong - no matter the topic. Maybe it is time to take a critical look as to why you have so many examples to share with us.

[Jimgolf]

Originally Posted by Ref in PA

OS, Maybe it is time to take a critical look as to why you have so many examples to share with us.

Bingo!!!!!!!

[Old School]

Originally Posted by Ref in PA

OS, aren't you the ref who advocates subbing players out of the game as they become problems? Why did you not do this? You have told everyone else to do this in past threads. Sounds like you did not take your own management advice.

What!!!!!

Originally Posted by Ref in PA

As others repeatedly have pointed out, your advice on game management has little worth, your comments on rules have even less worth. You always seem to have an example from your own games of things going wrong - no matter the topic. Maybe it is time to take a critical look as to why you have so many examples to share with us.

Shoot the messenger. I understand that when you have nothing of value to add to this discussion you try to attack the credibility of the messenger, trying to make it about me. Nice try but this is not about me. A kid was beat up on the court and by the time we realize what happen it was too late for the kid. For a kid to get beat up to this extent does leave some doubt. It's okay if you don't like my advice because I could care less about yours as well. I simply try to show a different side of the issue because only one side has been painted here.

I would take it personally if a kid was beat to the extent the OP stated on my court while I'm working. Nobody is throwing any punches between the rectangle box today that I don't see immediately and try to get control of. Nobody is going out in a ambulance for being beat up on my court either. They may need an ambulance because they made an athletic play and hurt themselves, but not for getting beat up by a player on the opposite team. I got some more advice for you, but it's okay if you don't like it. You are supposed to watch "all" ten players at "all" times when the ball is live. Oh, and guess what, that's not in the rulebook either but it is true.

As far as my examples. It's because I get out there and work some games. I don't stay at home all day and read the rulebook when I don't have nothing to do. I get out there and work and things happen. Something you should try to do instead of attacking someone who does, and then maybe you will have some story's to tell.

[rainmaker]

Originally Posted by Old School

I would take it personally if a kid was beat to the extent the OP stated on my court while I'm working. Nobody is throwing any punches between the rectangle box today that I don't see immediately and try to get control of. Nobody is going out in a ambulance for being beat up on my court either. They may need an ambulance because they made an athletic play and hurt themselves, but not for getting beat up by a player on the opposite team. I got some more advice for you, but it's okay if you don't like it. You are supposed to watch "all" ten players at "all" times when the ball is live. Oh, and guess what, that's not in the rulebook either but it is true.

This looks great on paper, and it probably works when you're reffing 3rd and 4th grade, but there's no way it's 100% possible when working with any players over the age of 11. They're too fast, too athletic for you to be in complete control. I don't care what you say on this board, but I do want others to understand that your little diatribes don't have a lot to do with reality.

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally Posted by Old School

1) I understand that when you have nothing of value to add to this discussion you try to attack the credibility of the messenger, trying to make it about me. Nice try but this is not about me.

2) For a kid to get beat up to this extent does leave some doubt.

3) You are supposed to watch "all" ten players at "all" times when the ball is live. Oh, and guess what, that's not in the rulebook either but it is true.

4) I don't stay at home all day and read the rulebook when I don't have nothing to do.

1) You don't have any credibility. That's because you haven't added anything of value here since McGriffs closed and you found this site, JMO. It's about you because you keep trying to comment on something you know absolutely nothing about--officiating.

2) You're the only one that thinks that it's the official's fault. That's because you don't have a clue what officiating is really about.

3) No, you're supposed to watch the players in your primary. That sureashell IS in the Mechanics Manual, which is another book that you don't happen to own.

4) How can you read something that you don't have?

[Old School]

Originally Posted by Jurassic Referee

1) You don't have any credibility. That's because you haven't added anything of value here since McGriffs closed and you found this site, JMO. It's about you because you keep trying to comment on something you know absolutely nothing about--officiating.

2) You're the only one that thinks that it's the official's fault. That's because you don't have a clue what officiating is really about.

3) No, you're supposed to watch the players in your primary. That sureashell IS in the Mechanics Manual, which is another book that you don't happen to own.

4) How can you read something that you don't have?

Of course this is not about a kid who was beat up so bad in a basketball game that was officiated by certified officials, that an ambulance had to be called to this game. Of course this is not about that! Why don't you review your statistics and tell us how many times kids in an organized event has been beat up so bad that an ambulance had to be called and the kids faced re-attached?

Now I don't think it's the officials fault either, I'm just raising the doubt because of the extenuating circumstances here. I mean if we're going to let kids beat each other up to this extent, we might as well not even be there. That is my point. Why do the game? Since you are not able to stop a kid from getting his face bash in. If we are going to take responsibility and do the game, then we need to bare some responsibility to what happened in the game. You can not get around this, which means it is not about me or my credibility or some character on the McGriff board. Neither of us have all the information we need to judge here, but I think I have more than you to make a reasonable judgment. I have a injured kid who needed hospitalization, fact. You have the referee's word, unproven, and no one else to substantiate. Yet you are dead sure the referee is not at fault. Well, you don't have enough information to be dead sure. It matters not to me that you are all in agreement that this is not the officials fault because these are some of the questions that are going to need to be answered.

I'm not looking to place blame here but I am interested in understanding more about what happened here and challenging your assertion that the referee is not at fault. If he is not at fault, then his statement should stand up to ridicule. So far it has not, and you know how I can tell. Because the conversation has turned personal.