Screen question with video

[SeanFitzRef]

Originally Posted by Jurassic Referee

.....NFHS rule 10-6-3(c)-- "The speed of the player to be screened will determine where the screener may take his/her stationary position. The position will vary and may be one to two normal steps or strides from the opponent."

Also see NFHS case book play 10.6.3SitD. That's time and distance.

I thought it was just me. Everyone was talking like the defender was running full speed, and the screener cross body blocked her. The screener came down and planted in enough time, didn't throw a shoulder or forearm, and allowed the defender to run into her. The screener did what a screener is supposed to do.

My coaching point for the day is: 'Had the defender's teammate informed her of the screen she could have avoided it.'

[Scrapper1]

Originally Posted by SeanFitzRef

My coaching point for the day is: 'Had the defender's teammate informed her of the screen she could have avoided it.'

My officiating point for this post is 'Had the defender's teammate informed her of the screen once the screener was stationary, she could not have avoided it.'

The screener has to be stationary and give the defender time to avoid the screen. That didn't happen. If a teammate had told her that there was a screener moving with her, then she could've avoided it. But the screener has to stop AND then give the defender that step.

[deecee]

in the real world this is a NO-CALL -- the amount of contact and how it was directed doesnt seem like little suzy will be setting that screen against that player anytime soon.

but besides the screen looked legal

[CoachP]

Originally Posted by SamIAm

CoachP, why don't you coach your girls properly. Whoever is guarding 14 gold should be out there to pick-up 30 after the screen.
22 gold looks wide open on the block, who is not coaching post play defense? Not to mention 20 gold looks wide open trailing the play.

Sam.....Touche'

It was an OOB play and 14 was the inbounder. We play M2M, but on OOB under the basket, we zone, w/o guarding the inbounder. 14 gold lobbed to past the 3 point arc to 30 gold.

#40 our "big man freshman" was under the basket to start off and saw the lob and tried to steal. When gold got possesion, she was stuck guarding the ball. Blue #12 ( a senior who did NOT call out the screen) was then saddled with #22 gold.

We sent gold to the line 38 times that game...homer refs....

[Mark T. DeNucci, Sr.]

I hope that JR is reading this thread because I am going to request his opinion on my post because he has been at this even longer that I have.

1) The video appears to be at less than regular speed. With that in mind, A2 set a legal screen against B1 who is guarding A1.

2) Any ruling I give will be the same for NFHS, NCAA Men's/Women's, and FIBA.

3) NFHS R4-S40-A1 states: A screen is legal action by a player who, without causing contact, delays or prevents an opponent from reaching a desired position.

4) The phrase "without causing contact" refers to illegal contact by the player being screened.

5) Based upon what I saw on the video, I would have ruled that A2 set a legal screen and the contact by B1 was not a foul. Why, you ask is B1's contact not a foul? NFHS R4-S19-A1 states: A person foul is a player foul which involves illegal contact with an opponent while the ball is live, which hinders an opponent from performing normal defensive and offensive movements. A person foul also includes contact by or on an airborne shooter when the ball is dead. NOTE: Contact after the ball has become dead is ignored unless it is ruled intentional or flagrant or is committed by or an airborner shooter. While B1's contact with A2 caused A2 to fall down, notice that B1 stopped as soon as she made contact with A2; B1 did not move through A2.

6) On a personal note, I do not believe an official ever has a "no call." A "no call" means that an official saw something illegal and decided not to penalize it. Either nothing illegal happened or something illegal happened and it must be penalized.

MTD, Sr.

[RookieDude]

6) On a personal note, I do not believe an official ever has a "no call." A "no call" means that an official saw something illegal and decided not to penalize it. Either nothing illegal happened or something illegal happened and it must be penalized.

Sorry Mark...but, a "no call" to me means "I got nuthin'"...nothing more, nothing less.

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally Posted by Mark T. DeNucci, Sr.

I hope that JR is reading this thread because I am going to request his opinion on my post because he has been at this even longer that I have.

1) The video appears to be at less than regular speed. With that in mind, A2 set a legal screen against B1 who is guarding A1.

2) Any ruling I give will be the same for NFHS, NCAA Men's/Women's, and FIBA.

3) NFHS R4-S40-A1 states: A screen is legal action by a player who, without causing contact, delays or prevents an opponent from reaching a desired position.

4) The phrase "without causing contact" refers to illegal contact by the player being screened.

5) Based upon what I saw on the video, I would have ruled that A2 set a legal screen and the contact by B1 was not a foul. Why, you ask is B1's contact not a foul? NFHS R4-S19-A1 states: A person foul is a player foul which involves illegal contact with an opponent while the ball is live, which hinders an opponent from performing normal defensive and offensive movements. A person foul also includes contact by or on an airborne shooter when the ball is dead. NOTE: Contact after the ball has become dead is ignored unless it is ruled intentional or flagrant or is committed by or an airborner shooter. While B1's contact with A2 caused A2 to fall down, notice that B1 stopped as soon as she made contact with A2; B1 did not move through A2.

6) On a personal note, I do not believe an official ever has a "no call." A "no call" means that an official saw something illegal and decided not to penalize it. Either nothing illegal happened or something illegal happened and it must be penalized.

MTD, Sr.

Fwiw, Mark, I finally got the video to play. I thought that it was a legal screen also, and it was properly no-called( ) The screener had the feet down and gave a step, and the player being screened stopped on contact.

I also agree with Rookie Dude on the "no call" terminology. That's pretty much standard official speak amongst us gals.

[JRutledge]

I cannot see how anyone can call this a foul. The screen was stationary and the screener looked like they took two steps before any contact. This is a classic no call. Basketball is a contact sport. There is going to sometimes be contact.

Peace

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by Mark T. DeNucci, Sr.

6) On a personal note, I do not believe an official ever has a "no call." A "no call" means that an official saw something illegal and decided not to penalize it. Either nothing illegal happened or something illegal happened and it must be penalized.

MTD, Sr.

You are right, this is a personal note. I will still use the terminology because it fits the description.

Peace

[Man In Blue]

Was the white sweatband legal? Because then it has to be a foul (just like stepping on the out of bound line is always a block!)

[Man In Blue]

Also I was trying to see the lead official. He is in position to call the on the ball, but it doesn't look like he has the defense (screen). This is an easy call if you are refing the defense. If you only see the girl go to the floor it is a difficult call!

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally Posted by Man In Blue

Was the white sweatband legal? Because then it has to be a foul (just like stepping on the out of bound line is always a block!)

I know you were kidding, but..... why wouldn't a white sweatband be legal?

[Adam]

Originally Posted by Jurassic Referee

I know you were kidding, but..... why wouldn't a white sweatband be legal?

If four other players on her team were wearing blue? Or maybe it's too big, or maybe....

[REFVA]

I looked at it about 10 times and the slow mo basically tells me it was more like two steps, i didn't think it was one step. Other than the screen being behind her I would go with no call, then I also think there was a little academy award on the fall. SO I go with not call.. and in most cases the less experienced officials will blow the whistle and go with a illegal screen. JMO

[Mark T. DeNucci, Sr.]

Sweatband!! What sweatband? I could care less about the color of sweatbands. I know that is a terrible attitude to take, but the Rules Committee members just have way too much time on their hands.

MTD, Sr.