Backcourt??

[SamIAm]

Originally Posted by Snaqwells

This "advantage" is provided to players whose team is not in control; during a throwin, on defense, and during a jump ball. A player whose team is not in control may jump from his front court, secure the ball while airborne, and land normally in the backcourt.

I am not addressing you specifically Mr. Snaqwells, just using your post.

Is this "advantage" available to either team following a try?

[Adam]

Originally Posted by SamIAm

I am not addressing you specifically Mr. Snaqwells, just using your post.

Is this "advantage" available to either team following a try?

This is a point of contention. I'm going off memory here, but the rule states, "a player whose team is not in control (on defense, during a throwin, or during a jump ball)…may jump and…."

Whether this applies to a player on a shot depends on whether you think this freedom extends after the throwin ends but before player/team control is established. The debate is whether the examples in parentheses are all inclusive, or meant as mere examples of when a player's team isn't in control.
Example: A1 releases the pass on a throwin, which is then tipped into the air by A2. A3 jumps from the FC to secure the ball and lands in the BC. Here is where some officials differ on the interepretation of this rule.

[RushmoreRef]

Originally Posted by Snaqwells

This is a point of contention. I'm going off memory here, but the rule states, "a player whose team is not in control (on defense, during a throwin, or during a jump ball)…may jump and…."

Whether this applies to a player on a shot depends on whether you think this freedom extends after the throwin ends but before player/team control is established. The debate is whether the examples in parentheses are all inclusive, or meant as mere examples of when a player's team isn't in control.
Example: A1 releases the pass on a throwin, which is then tipped into the air by A2. A3 jumps from the FC to secure the ball and lands in the BC. Here is where some officials differ on the interepretation of this rule.

I'd have to say that a tip doesn't mean team control and is therefore not a violation....we discussed this play at length with 6 officials after a tournament game and we came to that consensus....

[Adam]

Originally Posted by RushmoreRef

I'd have to say that a tip doesn't mean team control and is therefore not a violation....we discussed this play at length with 6 officials after a tournament game and we came to that consensus....

No one argues that team control exists at this point. The debate is whether the "exception" continues once the throwin is over. IOW, is the exception granted every time there's no team control, or only during the three specified examples.

[Mark Dexter]

Originally Posted by Snaqwells

No one argues that team control exists at this point. The debate is whether the "exception" continues once the throwin is over. IOW, is the exception granted every time there's no team control, or only during the three specified examples.

Snaqwells - you're right that the throw-in has ended in this situation. However, no team control has been established. Therefore, no violation - no matter where the player takes off from and lands.

Think of what happens on a jump ball. Just because a jumper touches the ball doesn't mean that the backcourt exception has ended. Nor does it end when a non-jumper grabs the ball, as long as he's in the air (even though the jump ball would end at that point).

[RushmoreRef]

Originally Posted by Mark Dexter

Snaqwells - you're right that the throw-in has ended in this situation. However, no team control has been established. Therefore, no violation - no matter where the player takes off from and lands.

Think of what happens on a jump ball. Just because a jumper touches the ball doesn't mean that the backcourt exception has ended. Nor does it end when a non-jumper grabs the ball, as long as he's in the air (even though the jump ball would end at that point).

I know the throw-in is over when touched on the court, but I mentioned "team control" because there can't be a violation when team control was never established.

I threw this out before a college game...same exact scenario as Snaqwells stated with the tip....and we know in college there is team control on a thrown in....but the exception of the backcourt violation on a thrown in takes precedence there as well, according to the officials I was with that evening....meaning no violation on a tip by A into the backcourt which is then recovered by A.

[Scrapper1]

Originally Posted by RushmoreRef

I know the throw-in is over when touched on the court, but I mentioned "team control" because there can't be a violation when team control was never established.

The problem with that is that the rule says there's no violation for a player whose team is not in control during a jump ball or throw-in.

Since the touch ends the throw-in, some people claim that the exception is no long valid.

[Adam]

Originally Posted by Mark Dexter

Snaqwells - you're right that the throw-in has ended in this situation. However, no team control has been established. Therefore, no violation - no matter where the player takes off from and lands.

Think of what happens on a jump ball. Just because a jumper touches the ball doesn't mean that the backcourt exception has ended. Nor does it end when a non-jumper grabs the ball, as long as he's in the air (even though the jump ball would end at that point).

Mark, I agree with you. I'm only saying there is a significantly sized group of officials who don't. The argument is that the parenthetical items in the allowance are all-inclusive, and that the allowance no longer applies once the throwin or jump ball is over, even if player control has not yet been established.
Adam

[RushmoreRef]

Originally Posted by Snaqwells

Mark, I agree with you. I'm only saying there is a significantly sized group of officials who don't. The argument is that the parenthetical items in the allowance are all-inclusive, and that the allowance no longer applies once the throwin or jump ball is over, even if player control has not yet been established.
Adam

So what do you make of #26......I think you and I and other on here say no violation....does the other group feel that both are violations...???