Court Coverage

[JoeTheRef]

Originally Posted by Scrapper1

What's the point of having a primary area of responsibility if you're not responsible for the ball when it's in your PCA? Women's coverage just makes no sense at all to me.

And what happens in the case that I described? Ball is in the post, players jockeying, and the ball gets kicked to the corner? Who takes the ball?

If I am the lead I MAY open up a little and take the ball in that corner and hope that the trail stays down low, if I see him in my periphial looking at the ball, then I will go back down low. If I am the trail and I see the Lead take the ball in the corner, I will keep looking into the paint. But that corner is the Lead's PCA. I agree the women's coverage doesn't make sense to me either, more importantly, the trail taking that sideline all the way down to the baseline. If that area from the free throw line extended down to the baseline is the L's PCA, why not give him that sideline as well, he's already looking there anyways.

[SeanFitzRef]

Originally Posted by Scrapper1

What's the point of having a primary area of responsibility if you're not responsible for the ball when it's in your PCA? Women's coverage just makes no sense at all to me.

And what happens in the case that I described? Ball is in the post, players jockeying, and the ball gets kicked to the corner? Who takes the ball?

The lead's primary responsibility is not always the ball in these situations. If there is a competitive post matchup, most assignors and clinicians on this level want the L to stay with that matchup, as they have a better angle on - and proximity to - the post matchup, and can pick up something from 10 - 15 feet away that the C or T won't pickup from 35 - 45 feet away.

The T will continue with the ball, as was stated earlier in this thread. The reason this is done, as explained to me in camps and pregames, is to continue to referee the post matchup and keep the post play as clean as possible. Something might get lost in the transition from refereeing the post matchup to picking up the ball matchup. (Although, you would then presume that the L would pick up on something on ball if it were closer to their position also, right???)

I tried to explain it as best I can, from the way it was explained to me.

[Scrapper1]

Originally Posted by SeanFitzRef

The lead's primary responsibility is not always the ball in these situations. If there is a competitive post matchup, most assignors and clinicians on this level want the L to stay with that matchup, as they have a better angle on - and proximity to - the post matchup, and can pick up something from 10 - 15 feet away that the C or T won't pickup from 35 - 45 feet away.

I couldn't agree more. That view is absolutely correct. So the obvious question is, why extend the Lead's "primary" outside the arc in the first place? If you know the post play is the priority and you know that the Lead has the best look at it, why don't you tell the Lead to stay with the post all the time and let the Trail handle anything outside the arc? The women's coverage is just silly, IMHO.

[socalreff]

Originally Posted by Scrapper1

I couldn't agree more. That view is absolutely correct. So the obvious question is, why extend the Lead's "primary" outside the arc in the first place? If you know the post play is the priority and you know that the Lead has the best look at it, why don't you tell the Lead to stay with the post all the time and let the Trail handle anything outside the arc? The women's coverage is just silly, IMHO.

The reasoning is that there has been less low post play in womens over the years. The coverage gives the lead the option to extend when there's not a lot going on down low. There's usually a lot more high post action, and the lead can pick up drives earlier to be able to see the whole play. I'm not saying it's right or wrong, just what some of the rationale has been.

[worldbefree]

Originally Posted by Scrapper1

I couldn't agree more. That view is absolutely correct. So the obvious question is, why extend the Lead's "primary" outside the arc in the first place? If you know the post play is the priority and you know that the Lead has the best look at it, why don't you tell the Lead to stay with the post all the time and let the Trail handle anything outside the arc? The women's coverage is just silly, IMHO.

Maybe its not silly at all. It seems wierd at first, but once you use the women's coverage, which is the same as the NBA, it makes the leads job a whole lot easier. In NCAA M the lead has post responsibility. That means when a play is coming out of the Lead's primary, the lead must pick it up out of his periphery and then referee that play as it is already developing. In NCAA W the lead picks up the ball at the freethrow line extended and then can referee the play if it developes to the basket. Makes it much easier to referee the whole play rather than just part of it.

[rockyroad]

Originally Posted by Scrapper1

The women's coverage is just silly, IMHO.

That's just because you don't use it regularly...here's a scenario: Men's game...you are T. Ball is in your primary but is being dribbled across the court and entering C's primary...C, however, has two players posting up and fighting for position on their low block. L has not rotated over to cover that, so C stays with that competitive match-up and does not pick up the dribbler...you, then, would extend your coverage and stay with the dribbler long enough for everything to get covered...it's no different than the NCAA-W coverage for the L...if I am L and ball comes down into my corner, I will pick that up, unless there is something going on in the post that requires my attention. If there is, my trusty T will cover that ball in the corner...it's just providing more options for covering the plays.

[Scrapper1]

Originally Posted by rockyroad

Men's game...you are T. Ball is in your primary but is being dribbled across the court and entering C's primary...C, however, has two players posting up and fighting for position on their low block. L has not rotated over to cover that, so C stays with that competitive match-up and does not pick up the dribbler...you, then, would extend your coverage and stay with the dribbler long enough for everything to get covered...

I would not stay with the dribbler for more than a second or so, unless I had a 5-second count going and was close to 5. When the ball enters my partner's primary, I expect him to pick up the ball immediately. If there's a competetive matchup on that block, I expect the Lead to rotate aggressively (with apologies to Dan_ref and mick) so that we don't leave the C with the ball and a post matchup.

But I am not going to be spending much time officiating the ball in my partner's primary unless I have a count. That's his job.

[Dan_ref]

Originally Posted by Scrapper1

I would not stay with the dribbler for more than a second or so, unless I had a 5-second count going and was close to 5.

So if you were at 2 you would just drop your count?

When the ball enters my partner's primary, I expect him to pick up the ball immediately. If there's a competetive matchup on that block, I expect the Lead to rotate aggressively (with apologies to Dan_ref and mick) so that we don't leave the C with the ball and a post matchup.

Not sure what you describe is aggressive rotation. Ball settles on the other side, post matchup on the other side. The L better have a damn good reason for not rotating in this case. Pretty basic stuff IMO.

[rockyroad]

Originally Posted by Scrapper1

I would not stay with the dribbler for more than a second or so, unless I had a 5-second count going and was close to 5. When the ball enters my partner's primary, I expect him to pick up the ball immediately. If there's a competetive matchup on that block, I expect the Lead to rotate aggressively (with apologies to Dan_ref and mick) so that we don't leave the C with the ball and a post matchup.

But I am not going to be spending much time officiating the ball in my partner's primary unless I have a count. That's his job.

I don't buy that dexter...you're too good of an official to just say "It's in his primary now. I don't care any more"...if he hasn't picked it up because there's some other crap going on someplace else, you'll make sure that it gets covered - that's what good officials do.

[mick]

Originally Posted by Scrapper1

If there's a competetive matchup on that block, I expect the Lead to rotate aggressively (with apologies to Dan_ref and mick) so that we don't leave the C with the ball and a post matchup.

No apology necessary.
If there's a competitive matchup, I'm there!
If there may eventually be a competitive matchup, I anticipate and I'm there before it happens but not because it may eventually happen.

[rockyroad]

Hey Mick, that edit should have said "dexter-head", not just dexter...

[mick]

Originally Posted by rockyroad

Hey Mick, that edit should have said "dexter-head", not just dexter...

[RonA]

You know what's funny(strange, not haha) about all this? On a tangent, I have been taught that in men's It is still 60/40 between C and T. Furthermore, if I were to ever release a dribbler into the C's area from the T having already established a count, I would get yelled at by both of my partners (not to mention my evaluator, both coaches, the fans, the vendors, the custodians) for having done so. Why do I know this? Because I've done it, and I have it on tape. As we all know, tape doesn't lie, but I digress.

My main point in joining this conversation is that after having been to my share of clinics, and working my share of 3-person mech games, I find myself going to another clinic this Summer in CA. No big deal. I go out there all the time for this one.But, when I went to look at this person's web page and looked at their explanation of coverages, its diagram for NCAA was the old style 50/50 coverage between the L and the T for both men's and women's
I also think it is showing the same thing for men's.

Correct me if I am wrong, but I am fairly certain that it is NOT this way anymore


Ron

[JRutledge]

I cannot speak for CCA Women's mechanics, but Men's is 50/50 in the manual. It is not always taught that way or required, but that is what the manual says. And that would be split between the T and the C, not the L and the T.

Peace

[RonA]

I cannot speak for CCA Women's mechanics, but Men's is 50/50 in the manual. It is not always taught that way or required, but that is what the manual says. And that would be split between the T and the C, not the L and the T

Fine I won't argue that. It is just interesting that on the pregame boards (see Honigs.com) for NCAA it shows the 60/40 diag for both M and W. MAybe it is this way only in TX, but I doubt that. ait is also the way we have been clinicized here.