To count or not to count

[IamKip]

Originally Posted by Jurassic Referee

Makes as much sense to me as most of the previous answers in this particular thread. Well done!

Just for SAG please explain what your definition of holding is and why it must be the correct version?

I think Webster is generally considered an expert of definitions and his definition is somewhat different then the singualr one you seem to adopt....

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally Posted by IamKip

Just for SAG please explain what your definition of holding is and why it must be the correct version?

I think Webster is generally considered an expert of definitions and his definition is somewhat different then the singualr one you seem to adopt....

Call me silly but I usually try to use the definitions in the rule book rather than the ones in Webster. Novel concept, eh?

For "holding", I generally try to follow the directions of rule 4-15-4--i.e.-- the ball comes to rest in one or both hands.

[IamKip]

Originally Posted by Jurassic Referee

Call me silly but I usually try to use the definitions in the rule book rather than the ones in Webster. Novel concept, eh?

For "holding", I generally try to follow the directions of rule 4-15-4--i.e.-- the ball comes to rest in one or both hands.

Tossing from left to right hand the ball does come to rest for a split second in each hand... I can't seem to find a length of time it must be at rest in the rule book?

Lets see the rule book is about a quarter inch thick and Webster is about 3 inches thick.. Probably a little more complete, but who is counting..

So you have no problem with a player tapping the ball all the way down the court?

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally Posted by IamKip

So you have no problem with a player tapping the ball all the way down the court?

Nope, not personally. Do you? Would you say that's a violation?

[IamKip]

Originally Posted by Jurassic Referee

Nope, not personally. Do you? Would you say that's a violation?

If the player tossed the ball left to right hand all the way down the court based on my correction to NevadaRef I would have an illegal dribble. The player would be in control of the ball.

The judgement would be if as an official I felt the player was in control or if they were fumbling. I understand fumbling is nothing but cleary tossing left to right hand, they are in control!

Why would you not? Does the ball come to rest for a split second in either hand? I say yes. The rule book does not give a definition of timeframe the ball must be at rest. If it does please let me know where?

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally Posted by IamKip

So you have no problem with a player tapping the ball all the way down the court?

That was your original statement, not tossing the ball back and forth between the hands going down the court. I replied that I thought it was legal. I just want to be clear? Are you saying that it's a violation if a player tips or taps the ball to himself, whether he does it once or numerous times?

[IamKip]

Originally Posted by Jurassic Referee

That was your original statement, not tossing the ball back and forth between the hands going down the court. I replied that I thought it was legal. I just want to be clear? Are you saying that it's a violation if a player tips or taps the ball to himself, whether he does it once or numerous times?

If in my judgment the player has control of the ball...Illegal dribble.. If the ball is in hand for split second it has come to rest for that split second. Even if player uses one hand they can not go down the court tapping to them selves up and down.

Clearly the difference in a fumbling tap, a tap to get ball away from opponent and someone just tipping up and down to themselves would be seen..

It is just not all cut and dry. I am sure you can visualize the play I am referring to and would not allow it either...

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally Posted by IamKip

If in my judgment the player has control of the ball...Illegal dribble.. If the ball is in hand for split second it has come to rest for that split second. Even if player uses one hand they can not go down the court tapping to them selves up and down.

Clearly the difference in a fumbling tap, a tap to get ball away from opponent and someone just tipping up and down to themselves would be seen..

It is just not all cut and dry. I am sure you can visualize the play I am referring to and would not allow it either...

Wrong. I would allow it. And in all 3 cases that you referred to above also.

That's just me though.

[IamKip]

Originally Posted by Jurassic Referee

Wrong. I would allow it. And in all 3 cases that you referred to above also.

That's just me though.

Since it appears you and I are the opnly ones that care about this post anymore. I will try to bring closure... While the original post is near impossible and the two examples I give below are near impossible also, unless they were allowed I just want to make sure I understand what you truly would allow..

1.) Tap left hand to right and running down the court, hands about a foot apart clearly controlling the balls direction...

2.) Tapping the ball vertical 6 inches just in the let hand while running down the court. Clearly controlling the bounce in the hand..