run count or not?

[chasbo]

I know if the BR is the third out and is called out before having reached 1B no runs can score. My question is what if BR only touches the white base, over runs 1B and F3 appeals that BR missed 1B. BR is called out but if R1 was on 3B and scored
during this play would R1 run count? Is touching the white base and being called out on appeal the same as actually missing the base?

[greymule]

Same as missing the base; same as being thrown out at 1B on a ground ball. No run.

I did an NSA tournament at the end of last year and made sure I read up on their rules, since I usually do ASA. One difference in NSA is that there is no appeal for hitting only the white base. The runner is simply called out.

[Dutch Alex]

In the Netherlands we play with ISF/ESF-rules and according to rule 5.07b2: A run shall not be scored if the third out of the inning is a result of a runner being forced out (including on an appeal play) due to the batter becoming a batter-runner.

I would, therfore, count the run if not all bases were loaded...

Please correct me if I'm wrong,
love Alex

[mach3]

Alex,

but the BR has not yet legally touched first base. So you need to look at
ISF Rule 5 Sec 7.b.
1 The batter-runner being put out before legally touching first base.

So if that would be the third out, also in ISF the run does not count.

Cheers from Germany

Raoul

[chuck chopper]

No Run

[Skahtboi]

Originally posted by chasbo
I know if the BR is the third out and is called out before having reached 1B no runs can score. My question is what if BR only touches the white base, over runs 1B and F3 appeals that BR missed 1B. BR is called out but if R1 was on 3B and scored
during this play would R1 run count? Is touching the white base and being called out on appeal the same as actually missing the base?

It depends, actually, on whether a play was being made on the runner. That is the major factor here. If there was no play being made on the runner at first, then it is entirely acceptable for them to use the white or orange base.

[IRISHMAFIA]

Originally posted by Skahtboi

It depends, actually, on whether a play was being made on the runner. That is the major factor here. If there was no play being made on the runner at first, then it is entirely acceptable for them to use the white or orange base.

Good call!

[mach3]

Yes that is true, but the sit. stated that the BR was called out (on the appeal)!

My question is what if BR only touches the white base, over runs 1B and F3 appeals that BR missed 1B. BR is called out ...

Raoul

[Dakota]

No run scores when the 3rd out is on the BR prior to reaching 1st base.

No run scores when the 3rd out is a force due to the batter becoming a BR.

No run scores when the 3rd out (or 4th out) is a live or dead ball appeal of either of the above due to missing the base.

If the umpire allowed the appeal, no run scores.

[IRISHMAFIA]

Originally posted by mach3
Yes that is true, but the sit. stated that the BR was called out (on the appeal)!

Raoul

Now you're assuming the umpire was right It is a good assumption.

I think Scott's point was that it is possible for a BR to not believe a play is being made and an after-the-fact throw is whipped toward 1B in an attempt to get the call if they saw or suspect the BR hit the wrong bag. Especially since this must be a live ball appeal unless the runner advanced farther without returning to touch 1B.

If you want to get picky, you could also bring up the argument that it was possible the throw came from foul territory thus allowing the BR to hit the white bag legally.

[Skahtboi]

Originally posted by IRISHMAFIA
I think Scott's point was that it is possible for a BR to not believe a play is being made and an after-the-fact throw is whipped toward 1B in an attempt to get the call if they saw or suspect the BR hit the wrong bag. Especially since this must be a live ball appeal unless the runner advanced farther without returning to touch 1B.

Exactly my point. Thank you.