Eyepoke

[Adam]

Originally Posted by deecee

In these cases you SHOULD have seen the swipe -- you might not see the contact but the reaction spells it out. Call the foul fix the eye get the ball in play. Never had a complain or problem and the defender always appologizes. Preventative when possible -- and calling a block has nothing to do with this -- either he blocked or took a charge nothing to do with think he moved.

besides we all know he CAN move and that has nothing to do with a block/charge -- armymanjones what DOES have to do with a charge? (or PC foul)

This is my point, too. If you see the swipe, you can call the foul. If you don't see the swipe, don't call the foul. If you expect to actually see the finger in the eye, you're never going to make that call, IMO.

[mj]

I stopped the game. Coach protested a little to the tableside T about a foul but dropped it quickly.

[armymanjones]

Originally Posted by deecee

In these cases you SHOULD have seen the swipe -- you might not see the contact but the reaction spells it out. Call the foul fix the eye get the ball in play. Never had a complain or problem and the defender always appologizes. Preventative when possible -- and calling a block has nothing to do with this -- either he blocked or took a charge nothing to do with think he moved.

besides we all know he CAN move and that has nothing to do with a block/charge -- armymanjones what DOES have to do with a charge? (or PC foul)

Ok, maybe bad example, but my point being was that you should not call what you don't see. Even if you should have seen it. If you are T and you are watching and counting A1 advancing the ball from backcourt to frontcourt with no pressure frome team B and you momentarily take your eye off the ball handler (I know not proper but it happens) and the B coach yells he double dribbled do you call it although you didn't see it? I'm not trying to over analyse just want to make the point of calling what you see and not what you don't.

[Adam]

The difference is there's no evidence of the double dribble after the fact. The other difference is no one is suggesting you call the foul if you didn't at least see the swipe around the face. All we're saying is you don't to see the finger in the eye to call this foul, seeing the swipe is enough.

[lorenj]

Originally Posted by Snaqwells

The difference is there's no evidence of the double dribble after the fact. The other difference is no one is suggesting you call the foul if you didn't at least see the swipe around the face. All we're saying is you don't to see the finger in the eye to call this foul, seeing the swipe is enough.

I agree. From most angles, you aren't going to be able to see the actual contact with the eye. If you only call a foul when you see the actual eye poke, you are going to miss this most of the time.

[armymanjones]

Originally Posted by Snaqwells

The difference is there's no evidence of the double dribble after the fact. The other difference is no one is suggesting you call the foul if you didn't at least see the swipe around the face. All we're saying is you don't to see the finger in the eye to call this foul, seeing the swipe is enough.

I agree seeing the swipe is enough but if you don't at least see the swipe and only the player holding his eye you can't call it.

[armymanjones]

I am watching KSU vs Xavier and saw the same play, a player gettting poked on a rebound. The kid went down with the ball the lead stopped the clock and waited for the kid to see if he could continue. He could not and was removed but no foul was called. The camera of course caught the poke but not the refs. Good no call.

[Rich]

Originally Posted by armymanjones

I am watching KSU vs Xavier and saw the same play, a player gettting poked on a rebound. The kid went down with the ball the lead stopped the clock and waited for the kid to see if he could continue. He could not and was removed but no foul was called. The camera of course caught the poke but not the refs. Good no call.

Great no call -- kid gets poked in the eye and nothing is called.

Looks like Old School has a friend.

[armymanjones]

Originally Posted by Rich Fronheiser

Great no call -- kid gets poked in the eye and nothing is called.

Looks like Old School has a friend.

So RF who do you call the foul on? Do you just tag the closest person?

[refnrev]

This one's tricky for me. I have trouble calling what I didn't see but I seriously doubt the guy poked himself in the eye.

[rainmaker]

The only time I"ve ever seen a poke that was enough to stop a player, it happened in the midst of about 8 players going up for a rebound all at the same time. One player comes out of the pack with the hand over the eye. No way to call it. If it's clear that there was a swipe by a certain player, and there is clearly a real injury (as opposed to a fake), I'll call a foul, even if I didn't actually see the finger in the eye.

[Scrapper1]

At a camp I went to, a very high level D1 official told us, "In the last 4 minutes of the game, any 'meltdown' is a foul. Automatic. No kid is going to fake getting hit in the face in the last 4 minutes of a close game." His definition of a meltdown was a kid just stopping playing to hold a piece of his anatomy. Any time a kid just stops playing and grabs his eye, nose, groin, etc, it's because he was fouled. Call it.

In theory, I understand the desire NOT to call something that you didn't see. But in real life, the kid got fouled. So call it.

[Dan_ref]

Originally Posted by Scrapper1

At a camp I went to, a very high level D1 official told us, "In the last 4 minutes of the game, any 'meltdown' is a foul. Automatic. No kid is going to fake getting hit in the face in the last 4 minutes of a close game." His definition of a meltdown was a kid just stopping playing to hold a piece of his anatomy. Any time a kid just stops playing and grabs his eye, nose, groin, etc, it's because he was fouled. Call it.

What Art McDonald actually said Scrappy-doo-doo is to call the meltdown at any point in the game, not just at the end.

He will be missed.

[deecee]

in that instance on the rebound it could be a no call -- incedental -- when the dribbler has the ball and defender swipes to steal and missess and pokes big difference.

[Old School]

Originally Posted by deecee

In basketball when I have seen this once or twice I might NOT actually see the finger go in the eye but I call the fould be it half a second or second late because most (and by most I mean 99.9%) are not going to fake a poke in the eye when they are being guarded because basketball players are not taught to act while they have the ball -- its after they lose it or get a foul called. but as long as they have possession you wont hear much from him -- wait till he gets blocked or ripped of the rock then you might hear some crying and excuses and bs.

But the ball in a players hand is like truth syrum players act and respond to what actually happens at the time not what they hope had happened to save their azz

I think there's a little BS in that serum you're trying to feed us. Remember, this is competition, not a spelling test. If I can get my opponent in foul trouble, I'm going to try, and I know it's taught somewhere. I personally have seen it in the men's game. I have seen players flop, after shooting the ball in order to try and sale that they got hit in the face. Please don't tell me that players won't try and flop to sale a foul call when they got the ball. If my opponent who happens to be a star player or a very good player is in foul trouble and he is guarding me, and takes a swipe at me across my face as I try and maneuver. I grab my face, oh, he just hit me, oh, oh, oh, while still holding the ball. Maybe they don't do that in the games you ref but that's not consistent across the board. Keep reffing, you will be amazed at what you will see over time.

Also, because of your inputs here. Coaches will read this and learn that most of you, will succumb to this tactic because of exactly what you just said Deecee. Because in this one instance, you stepped out of reality and what's real and venture into the unknown, what I thought just happen. Not a good place to go as an official. I was told never to guess. If I'm not sure, I'm not putting air in the whistle. I will however, portect the player.