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  #16 (permalink)  
Old Wed Jan 03, 2007, 05:49pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jmkbball
We actually had a game early this year where a coach apparently taught a technique to his players to get in a good defensive position with hands down -- but then bring their hands up in efforts to make a steal. I thought the first 'inadvertent' slap up someone's face was just that. But then it happened again and we called a foul. The third time (not the same player) we called a technical and the coach got the players to tone their actions back a bit.
Maybe the right idea, but the wrong method.

You can't call a technical foul, by rule, for a contact foul committed during a live ball. To make your point, your options would have been an intentional personal foul or a flagrant personal foul.
  #17 (permalink)  
Old Wed Jan 03, 2007, 05:51pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Snaqwells
Blow the whistle for the foul. Give the player a chance to recover before forcing the substitution.
Fwiw, that's a legal play in the WWE. It's called a Greco-Roman eyepoke.
  #18 (permalink)  
Old Wed Jan 03, 2007, 05:51pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mj
I had a situation last night in my game and am looking for input. I am C and have A1 with the ball right in front of me defended by B1. B1 swats at the ball and apparently pokes A1 in the eye which I do not see. A1 cradles the ball with one arm and covers his eye with his other hand then starts to pivot on his pivot foot in pain.

Do you call a late foul? Call an officials timeout for his injury? Play on? What are your thoughts?
If I recognize it's a poke quickly enough, it's a foul. If I don't see it until a few seconds later, I'll just stop the game.

If they fake me out over this, then good on them, I suppose.
  #19 (permalink)  
Old Wed Jan 03, 2007, 06:09pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nevadaref
I have always ruled an inadvertent poke in the eye to not be a foul. I simply stop the game and give the player a moment or two to recover. Invariably the opponent is apologetic and the game continues nicely.

That's just what works for me.
What??

Maybe you were a big Moe Howard fan as a kid?

Or maybe you just didn't like Curly.



Nyuck nyuck nuck.
  #20 (permalink)  
Old Wed Jan 03, 2007, 06:31pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dan_ref
What??

Maybe you were a big Moe Howard fan as a kid?

Or maybe you just didn't like Curly.



Nyuck nyuck nuck.
Nyuck, nyuck, nyuck....
  #21 (permalink)  
Old Wed Jan 03, 2007, 06:48pm
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The blind leading the......

If I don't see a push but see a man on the ground should I call it??? Why would anyone call something they don't see?
  #22 (permalink)  
Old Wed Jan 03, 2007, 06:51pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by armymanjones
If I don't see a push but see a man on the ground should I call it??? Why would anyone call something they don't see?
Welcome to the forum! As much as it pains me to say this, to some degree I agree with OS. I don't feel comfortable calling a foul I didn't see. And yes, I've seen coaches go nuts over an eyepoke, but I just tell 'em, do you want me to call what I SEE or what I THINK happened?
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  #23 (permalink)  
Old Wed Jan 03, 2007, 06:52pm
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If I see the swipe and the reaction, I've seen the foul. If I'm straight-lined on a player running into another one, all I'm likely to see is the intial direction and the reaction. I may not actually see the contact that caused the fall.

No one is saying to call the foul if you don't see the swipe, only that if you don't literally see the finger hit the eye you can still call the foul.
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  #24 (permalink)  
Old Wed Jan 03, 2007, 07:02pm
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If I don't see it, I'm not calling a foul. I will stop the game, but how can I guess at that and call a foul? What if A1's head movement contributed more to the contact than B1's moving hands? We're penalizing the defense for that? I don't think so.
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  #25 (permalink)  
Old Wed Jan 03, 2007, 07:02pm
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Fakers

I don't know where this occurred, but I saw it on ESPN last season in college baseball. A player struck out and threw himself to the ground, acting like the pitch hit him. The ump didn't buy it. The player had such a hissy fit, he was ejected from the game. The game was recorded, and it was very obvious that he was never hit by the pitch. Boy, talk about taking it to the extreme! In other words, I guess a player COULD conceivably act like they got poked in the eye, but what player is going to take a chance on giving up the ball and not get the call?
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  #26 (permalink)  
Old Wed Jan 03, 2007, 07:22pm
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apples to peanuts -- the batter in baseball is OUT hes trying his luck to get on base.

In basketball when I have seen this once or twice I might NOT actually see the finger go in the eye but I call the fould be it half a second or second late because most (and by most I mean 99.9%) are not going to fake a poke in the eye when they are being guarded because basketball players are not taught to act while they have the ball -- its after they lose it or get a foul called. but as long as they have possession you wont hear much from him -- wait till he gets blocked or ripped of the rock then you might hear some crying and excuses and bs.

But the ball in a players hand is like truth syrum players act and respond to what actually happens at the time not what they hope had happened to save their azz
  #27 (permalink)  
Old Wed Jan 03, 2007, 07:25pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by deecee
apples to peanuts -- the batter in baseball is OUT hes trying his luck to get on base.

In basketball when I have seen this once or twice I might NOT actually see the finger go in the eye but I call the fould be it half a second or second late because most (and by most I mean 99.9%) are not going to fake a poke in the eye when they are being guarded because basketball players are not taught to act while they have the ball -- its after they lose it or get a foul called. but as long as they have possession you wont hear much from him -- wait till he gets blocked or ripped of the rock then you might hear some crying and excuses and bs.

But the ball in a players hand is like truth syrum players act and respond to what actually happens at the time not what they hope had happened to save their azz
Kind of what I was getting at. If a player has the ball, he's thinking of what he can do with it, not how he can get a cheap call.
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  #28 (permalink)  
Old Wed Jan 03, 2007, 07:44pm
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True but how can you honestly call something you don't see. That's like calling a block because you think he moved!
  #29 (permalink)  
Old Wed Jan 03, 2007, 07:54pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mplagrow
Welcome to the forum! As much as it pains me to say this, to some degree I agree with OS. I don't feel comfortable calling a foul I didn't see. And yes, I've seen coaches go nuts over an eyepoke, but I just tell 'em, do you want me to call what I SEE or what I THINK happened?
Thanks for the welcome by the way. I think you should call what you think you see not what you think happened even though you did not see it. I was in a game last night where I called a kid for elbowing. He told his coach the other guy was holding his jersey and the coach told the kid to play through it because the ref always catches the second violation. I'm sure if the kid would have stepped away from the opponenet instead of elbowing I may have seen the hold but I couldn't call it because I didn't see it even if I thought he may have held before the elbow.
  #30 (permalink)  
Old Wed Jan 03, 2007, 07:57pm
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In these cases you SHOULD have seen the swipe -- you might not see the contact but the reaction spells it out. Call the foul fix the eye get the ball in play. Never had a complain or problem and the defender always appologizes. Preventative when possible -- and calling a block has nothing to do with this -- either he blocked or took a charge nothing to do with think he moved.

besides we all know he CAN move and that has nothing to do with a block/charge -- armymanjones what DOES have to do with a charge? (or PC foul)
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