Overtime Chaos

[Back In The Saddle]

Originally Posted by Snaqwells

I hadn't thought about this before, but pointing while counting could have some unintended consequences. They all know we do it, but it may set the expectation that if a 6-player T happens, it was the officials' fault.

This is just one more item on my "I don't get it" list. I have always thought "don't point while you count" thing was one of those "it's right because I say it's right" things. What possible difference could it make whether you can be seen counting players? We are expected to count players, why not be seen doing what we're supposed to do? We are required count seconds visibly, so counting visibly isn't inherently a bad thing. So either there's a very good reason that I've never been told, or it started with some influential person's personal preference and has become a monkies and firehoses thing.

As for it being the official's fault, we get blamed either way. If they see us counting and we end up with six, they'll think official can't count or that he knew but deliberately didn't say anything. If they don't see him count, and end up with six, they think he didn't do his job. The only way to "win" is to catch this and prevent it.

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally Posted by Snaqwells

I hadn't thought about this before, but pointing while counting could have some unintended consequences. They all know we do it, but it may set the expectation that if a 6-player T happens, it was the officials' fault.

Bingo.

Yes, the officials should always try to prevent it, if possible. Still.....sh!t will happen. That's rule #11. But, the bottom line is that having 6 players on the floor is NEVER, EVER the official's fault. It's always the coach's fault.

It seems that some people seem to forget that little point.

[Ignats75]

Originally Posted by Dan_ref

Yeah, I don't get the point & count thing either.

It's not like you're putting a little check mark on their heads when you point & count 'em.

Nah. I get up real close to them and put a little dent in each of their foreheads.

[FishinRef]

Ignats75
Nah. I get up real close to them and put a little dent in each of their foreheads.

Do you think the players would mind if we circle the OLD dents so we don't get confused from an earlier count?

[Adam]

Just take different colored pens.

[Ignats75]

Originally Posted by FishinRef

Do you think the players would mind if we circle the OLD dents so we don't get confused from an earlier count?

When we're meeting with the captains at the center circle, I call each player over 1 at a time and use "Dent Wizard" to get the old ones out. Sets a good tone for the night that way.

[Back In The Saddle]

Originally Posted by Ignats75

When we're meeting with the captains at the center circle, I call each player over 1 at a time and use "Dent Wizard" to get the old ones out. Sets a good tone for the night that way.

I've been using the Dent Wizard for a couple of years now. But last night the batteries were dead. So we got some Bondo and a sledge hammer from the auto shop and banged out the dents the old fashioned way.

[WhistlesAndStripes]

Originally Posted by legend

The start of O.T. is the same as the start of the game. Which means that just as in the pre-game player count, the O.T . player count goes to U-1(home), and U-2(visitors). This should be covered by the "R" in the pregame meeting, and we know the R doesn't toss til he gets a thumbs up from U-2 and U-1(who also confirms that the table is good to go prior to thumbs up), so eye contack is immeasurable here.

c-o-n-t-a-c-t.

[WhistlesAndStripes]

Originally Posted by Jurassic Referee

Bingo.

Yes, the officials should always try to prevent it, if possible. Still.....sh!t will happen. That's rule #11. But, the bottom line is that having 6 players on the floor is NEVER, EVER the official's fault. It's always the coach's fault.

It seems that some people seem to forget that little point.

Actually, sometimes it's the fault of the player who went in the game when he wasn't told to by the coach. You can't ALWAYS hang it on the coach. That's also why this is only a Team Technical, and is not even charged as an indirect on the head coach.

[Mark Padgett]

Originally Posted by Old School

it's a little harder in football where you have to count up 11 players.

Yeah - having to take your shoes off all the time must be a real pain.

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally Posted by Whistles & Stripes

Actually, sometimes it's the fault of the player who went in the game when he wasn't told to by the coach. You can't ALWAYS hang it on the coach. That's also why this is only a Team Technical, and is not even charged as an indirect on the head coach.

Yup, gotta agree with that. I still don't think that anyone should ever try to hang it on the official. Sure, we try to get it , but if we don't, oh well.....

[Old School]

Originally Posted by Jurassic Referee

Yup, gotta agree with that. I still don't think that anyone should ever try to hang it on the official. Sure, we try to get it , but if we don't, oh well.....

Hold up big time! If you put the ball in play and there's 6 instead of 5. We miss that one. At a camp couple years ago. I felt so proud when I got that technical, 6 guys on the court, until the evaluator came over to me and said. Now, whose fault is it really? I don't think I won any points for calling that, in fact, I know I didn't.

[WhistlesAndStripes]

Originally Posted by Old School

Hold up big time! If you put the ball in play and there's 6 instead of 5. We miss that one. At a camp couple years ago. I felt so proud when I got that technical, 6 guys on the court, until the evaluator came over to me and said. Now, whose fault is it really? I don't think I won any points for calling that, in fact, I know I didn't.

Whose fault is it REALLY? It's the Player's/Coach's.
Yeah, we missed it too, but it's REALLY their fault for sending in too many players, or for entering the game without the coach's direction to do so, or entering the game and the player they were sent in to replace didn't leave the game.

[Adam]

It's basic, folks. Yeah, we should try to prevent it; but if we don't, we have to call the T. Why? Because it's the coach's responsibility. If it was our fault, they'd make it a correctable error.
Of course, there's never any reason to feel proud of calling this T. Just do it and move on quickly if you weren't able to prevent it. BTW, preventative officiating does not mean ignoring it when it happens.

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally Posted by Old School

At a camp couple years ago. I felt so proud when I got that technical, 6 guys on the court, until the evaluator came over to me and said. Now, whose fault is it really?

That goober musta been the stoopidest evaluator in the history of the game then, to say something as dumb as that.

D1 camp?