Overtime Chaos

[FishinRef]

BV game, 3-man crew, 1st overtime. Preparing for jump to start OT. R is waiting outside center circle, U1 & U2 are in position for jump. Team A has six players on the floor ready for the toss. Team B coach is screaming for a technical foul against Team A. Team A coach gets A6 off the floor prior to Referee entering center circle for the toss. The question is, at what point during the the start of the OT, would you call this T?

[Sirrefalot]

Little preventive officiating is helpful. It should be someones job to make sure there are only five from each team. I am making eye contact with my partner prior to stepping in and tossing the ball. Once the ball is made live I have a "T" but I cn't think of to many times where there isn't sone responsibility by the official for having to many players on the court.

[FishinRef]

Little preventive officiating is helpful. It should be someones job to make sure there are only five from each team. I am making eye contact with my partner prior to stepping in and tossing the ball. Once the ball is made live I have a "T" but I cn't think of to many times where there isn't sone responsibility by the official for having to many players on the court.

The R intentionally waited on entering for the toss so the coach of Team A would wake up. This just added fuel to Team B Coach.

[Adam]

Originally Posted by FishinRef

BV game, 3-man crew, 1st overtime. Preparing for jump to start OT. R is waiting outside center circle, U1 & U2 are in position for jump. Team A has six players on the floor ready for the toss. Team B coach is screaming for a technical foul against Team A. Team A coach gets A6 off the floor prior to Referee entering center circle for the toss. The question is, at what point during the the start of the OT, would you call this T?

Way after this point. If I catch it before the jump ball is completed, no T. B coach needs to quit screaming, or he'll coach overtime from his seat.

[emtp]

Ball is not live until the leaves the had of the R on the toss. The reason officials ref at higher levels is because they know how to not only manage game but prevent situations that should not effect the game. Just because a coach is yelling does not make him right. The crew did a good job.

[bigdogrunnin]

Gotta agree with the previous posters. NO WAY am I giving a T for this. I look at Team A coach and say, "Coach, someone has to come off." End of discussion. Team B Coach can yell all he wants. My response, "Coach, that's enough." Now, to avoid this in the future . . .


While looking at the players on the floor, point your index finger toward ONE of the players and say ONE. Then proceed to point your index finger at a different player ON THE SAME TEAM, and say TWO. Repeat process for players 3, 4, and 5. THEN . . . repeat the SAME process for the opposing team's players (1-5). You should never have more than FIVE (5). IF you do, calmly ask the coach of the "almost offending" team to kindly remove one of his/her players. All-in-all should take about 7-10 seconds, but will save a lot of time later when you have to administer that Technical Foul that the Team B coach is yelling about. PREVENTATIVE OFFICIATING!

[FishinRef]

While looking at the players on the floor, point your index finger toward ONE of the players and say ONE. Then proceed to point your index finger at a different player ON THE SAME TEAM, and say TWO. Repeat process for players 3, 4, and 5. THEN . . . repeat the SAME process for the opposing team's players (1-5). You should never have more than FIVE (5). IF you do, calmly ask the coach of the "almost offending" team to kindly remove one of his/her players. All-in-all should take about 7-10 seconds, but will save a lot of time later when you have to administer that Technical Foul that the Team B coach is yelling about. PREVENTATIVE OFFICIATING!

We took care of business by PREVENTATIVE OFFICIATING. The Referee held the toss so the the sixth man could get off the court. By the way, we can count to ONE but it is not using the index finger. I hope I didn't over simplify that for you.

[tomegun]

Originally Posted by bigdogrunnin

Gotta agree with the previous posters. NO WAY am I giving a T for this. I look at Team A coach and say, "Coach, someone has to come off." End of discussion. Team B Coach can yell all he wants. My response, "Coach, that's enough." Now, to avoid this in the future . . .


While looking at the players on the floor, point your index finger toward ONE of the players and say ONE. Then proceed to point your index finger at a different player ON THE SAME TEAM, and say TWO. Repeat process for players 3, 4, and 5. THEN . . . repeat the SAME process for the opposing team's players (1-5). You should never have more than FIVE (5). IF you do, calmly ask the coach of the "almost offending" team to kindly remove one of his/her players. All-in-all should take about 7-10 seconds, but will save a lot of time later when you have to administer that Technical Foul that the Team B coach is yelling about. PREVENTATIVE OFFICIATING!

It is a small thing, but I've heard many officials say NOT to point and count. It doesn't make that much of a difference, but is it really that hard to count to five without pointing?

[Dan_ref]

Originally Posted by tomegun

It is a small thing, but I've heard many officials say NOT to point and count. It doesn't make that much of a difference, but is it really that hard to count to five without pointing?

Yeah, I don't get the point & count thing either.

It's not like you're putting a little check mark on their heads when you point & count 'em.

[Adam]

Sometimes I point, discretely, as I count. But hey, I recently stopped counting out loud.

[bigdogrunnin]

Originally Posted by FishinRef

We took care of business by PREVENTATIVE OFFICIATING. The Referee held the toss so the the sixth man could get off the court. By the way, we can count to ONE but it is not using the index finger. I hope I didn't over simplify that for you.

How am I "supposed" to take this? If it is an "F"-you, then shame on you for being so disrespectful. My post was certainly not intended to offend you, but obviously it has, and again, shame on you for your response. You could have handled this MUCH better. If I am taking it the wrong way, then please tell me so, so that I in turn may apoglize to you. Regardless, your response is considerably UNPROFESSIONAL! Additionally, my post wasn't directed SOLELY toward you, as a great many OTHER officials use this board. And maybe, just maybe, there is one or two who haven't mastered greatness quite like yourself, and they may find the information helpful in the future so that they too may become perfect.

And no, it was over-simplified.

But as for not pointing and counting, I guess all those D1 & D2 evaluators and assignors really don't know anything after all. All the evaluators and assignors I work with say, POINT AND COUNT so you are certain. I guess I shouldn't listen to the guys and gals who are giving me those games. Does an official HAVE to point and count, NO. Does it help when you have 10-12 players mingling around one another, YES!

[Mark Padgett]

Whenever I see a team come out with six, I go over to the coach and say loudly, "Coach - new rule this year - you only get five players." It usually gets a laugh and I've never had a problem with the other coach. Of course, you have to catch it before the ball becomes live.

[FishinRef]

bigdogrunnin, I was offended greatly by your initial reply. If it wasn't intended to be degrading or demeaning, then I apologize sincerely for over reacting. We are all fellow Officials in the trenches every night. We get enough crap from everyone else without giving it to one another. For my comments, I retract, and I am sorry.

My original question is "at what point during the the start of the OT, would you call this T?" If you have notified the coach, and stated that somebody has to go, which we did. At what point during the game is this a T?

1. When R enters the circle?
2. When R releases the toss?
3. When ball is tapped?
4. When possession is gained by either team?

[Jurassic Referee]

My original question is "at what point during the the start of the OT, would you call this T?" If you have notified the coach, and stated that somebody has to go, which we did. At what point during the game is this a T?

2. When R releases the toss?

As already answered above, when the ball becomes live you've now got more than 5 team members participating. Technical foul when the ball is released on the jump by the R as per NFHS rule 10-1-6PENALTY.

[Ray_from_Mi]

If preventative doesn't work, then this event is like waiting for the other shoe to drop. I would expect the other two on the crew to note that six are still on from one team. Once I toss the ball and it's touched immediately a whistle should sound and indicate six on the floor. We then shoot two and take the ball at 1/2 court. Once the ball is inbound, we then set the arrow. Due to possession not being established at the toss, it is pointed away from the team that inbounds the ball. (I think that's right)