NCAA Emphasis on palming/carrying

[bearclause]

I was a little bit surprised that a player I watched was called about five times for carries on several high dribbles over his shoulder. Some seemed legit, but there were other times where he seemed guilty of nothing other than dribbling it high with his hand on top of the ball at all times. I don't really understand how this is being enforced. Here's the text from the 2007 NCAA rulebook:

Palming (Illegal Dribble)

Although steps were taken to control palming in the 2005-06 basketball season, additional attention needs to be directed in eliminating the illegal maneuver of “palming the ball” from our game. “Palming” or “carrying” the ball places the defensive player at a distinct disadvantage while according the dribbler a sizeable advantage inconsistent with the spirit and intent of the rules. The dribbler, who during a high or hesitation dribble, causes the ball to come to rest and then pushes or pulls the ball either to the side or in front of him commits an indefensible violation which must be called.

“Palming” is an illegal maneuver. When the ball comes to rest in the
dribblers’ hand, by rule, the dribble has ended. Continuing to dribble after the ball has come to rest in the hand is a violation and should be called.

And Rule 4 - Section 18 - Article 4:

Art. 4. The dribble ends when:

a. The dribbler catches or carries/palms the ball by allowing it to come to rest in one or both hands;

b. The dribbler touches the ball with both hands simultaneously;

c. An opponent bats the ball; or

d. The ball becomes dead.

A.R. 77. A1, while advancing the ball by dribbling, manages to keep a hand in contact with the ball until it reaches its maximum height. A1 maintains such control as the ball descends, pushing it to the playing court at the last moment; however, after six or seven bounces, A1’s hands are in contact with the ball and the palm of the hand on this particular dribble is skyward. RULING: Violation. The ball has come to rest on the hand while the palm and the fingers are facing upward, so the dribble has ended. When the player continues to move or stand still and dribble, the player has committed a violation by dribbling a second time. (See Rule 9-7.)

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally Posted by bearclause

I was a little bit surprised that a player I watched was called about five times for carries on several high dribbles over his shoulder. Some seemed legit, but there were other times where he seemed guilty of nothing other than dribbling it high with his hand on top of the ball at all times. I don't really understand how this is being enforced.

It's being enforced by competent, knowledgable officials. Would you be equally surpised if it was called on a player on the other team? You know...the one that you aren't a fan of?

Geeze, we usually don't get the fanboys here until March.

[bearclause]

Originally Posted by Jurassic Referee

It's being enforced by competent, knowledgable officials. Would you be equally surpised if it was called on a player on the other team? You know...the one that you aren't a fan of?

Geeze, we usually don't get the fanboys here until March.

I admit this kid has a high dribble at times. However - there were a couple of times where he clearly keeps his hand on top the ball but dribbles it above his shoulder level and a ref signals a carry. One particular time, he continues his dribble behind and above his shoulder, but his hand is no more than maybe 60 degrees from top dead center and nowhere near facing "skyward" as stated in the NCAA rulebook. For those who want to give a real answer - is that a carry?

I'm just curious what's with the insult rather than a straight answer. We've got people are convinced that the new NCAA emphasis is that dribbling above shoulder-level is illegal. It's a fairly simple question. I suppose you've never watched a game on TV and started wondering what a ref was calling because it didn't seem to reflect the rules.

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by bearclause

I admit this kid has a high dribble at times. However - there were a couple of times where he clearly keeps his hand on top the ball but dribbles it above his shoulder level and a ref signals a carry. One particular time, he continues his dribble behind and above his shoulder, but his hand is no more than maybe 60 degrees from top dead center and nowhere near facing "skyward" as stated in the NCAA rulebook. For those who want to give a real answer - is that a carry?

I'm just curious what's with the insult rather than a straight answer. We've got people are convinced that the new NCAA emphasis is that dribbling above shoulder-level is illegal. It's a fairly simple question. I suppose you've never watched a game on TV and started wondering what a ref was calling because it didn't seem to reflect the rules.

I will give you a very straight answer. I have no idea what was called because I was not there. The officials on the game were standing only a few feet from a play and you should ask them. I have no idea why a carry call was made against your player without seeing what he or she did in person. You might think they called a violation for one thing and they called it for something entirely different. What you think is clear, might not be so clear to the people who get paid the big bucks to make that call.

Peace

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally Posted by bearclause

I'm just curious what's with the insult rather than a straight answer. We've got people are convinced that the new NCAA emphasis is that dribbling above shoulder-level is illegal. It's a fairly simple question. I suppose you've never watched a game on TV and started wondering what a ref was calling because it didn't seem to reflect the rules.

Insult? Moi? Never!

Let me take a wild guess though, bearclause....

You're an Auburn fan and one of your players got called for multi palming violations in your last game.

Am I close? Be honest now.

And, kidding aside, officials don't screw up multi palming violations at that level. They all know the difference between a high dribble and a carry. If they don't, they sureashell don't last long. You can take that to the bank.

[bearclause]

Originally Posted by Jurassic Referee

Insult? Moi? Never!

Let me take a wild guess though, bearclause....

You're an Auburn fan and one of your players got called for multi palming violations in your last game.

Am I close? Be honest now.

And, kidding aside, officials don't screw up multi palming violations at that level. They all know the difference between a high dribble and a carry. If they don't, they sureashell don't last long. You can take that to the bank.

No. Cal fan. Great Alaska Shootout final against Loyola Marymount. Jerome Randle got called several times. Once it looked like he picked up his dribble. Another time (8:08 left) it looks like he's dribbling high and above the shoulder. I don't dispute that he did get a legit carry (some were closer than others) called a couple of times and may have been trying to test the refs.

Regardless of whether or not the refs might have judged an actual carry, I just wanted to know if a high-dribble (above the shoulder) is by definition considered carrying under the new emphasis. I'm having a discussion with people who are convinced that how high the dribble is may be enough (by itself) to call a carry.

It also seems that many refs are just adjusting to the new emphasis at the beginning of the season. I'm pretty sure that some crews are calling it tighter than others.

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally Posted by bearclause

I admit this kid has a high dribble at times. However - there were a couple of times where he clearly keeps his hand on top the ball but dribbles it above his shoulder level and a ref signals a carry. One particular time, he continues his dribble behind and above his shoulder, but his hand is no more than maybe 60 degrees from top dead center and nowhere near facing "skyward" as stated in the NCAA rulebook. For those who want to give a real answer - is that a carry?

In citing everything above from the NCAA book, bearclause, you left the following out:

-- From the Points of Emphasis at the front of this year's NCAA rulebook --"The dribbler, who during a high or hesitation dribble, causes the ball to come to rest and then pushes or pulls the ball to either side or in front of him commits an in indefensible violation which MUST be called".

That's why the player got called for it. The NCAA rulesmakers want all of their officials to look for it and call it. That player is gonna continue to get called for it too until he stops doing it.

On the e-officials web site, there is an excellent video showing how the play should be called.

[just another ref]

Originally Posted by Jurassic Referee

-- From the Points of Emphasis at the front of this year's NCAA rulebook --"The dribbler, who during a high or hesitation dribble, causes the ball to come to rest and then pushes or pulls the ball to either side or in front of him commits an in indefensible violation which MUST be called".

The NCAA rulesmakers want all of their officials to look for it and call it.

Not a minute too soon.

[refnrev]

I wish that palming and carrying were more of an emphasis in FED. Each year the players seem to get by with more and more. I've seen some girls with palms facing the celing and the ball almost coming to rest. I have to admit I don't call the carry as often as I used to.