NCAA Emphasis on palming/carrying

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by bearclause

I'm just thinking the first time those kids try out that move in junior high or high school, they'll be sorely disappointed. I understand the NBA rule is essentially the same, but the enforcement is not.

When I do watch NBA games, I have seen these called. So I really do not know what you are talking about. And I am not sure what the NBA has to do with this conversation. You are not asking about the NBA, you are asking about the NCAA.

Originally Posted by bearclause

Then maybe you can help. It sounds like a simple rule. One can't let ball come to rest on the hand while dribbling. However - this "point of emphasis" in the NCAA rulebook is making a lot of people who watch the games suspicious that it's meant to outlaw any dribbling motion above the shoulder level. That's really the one thing I want to know. Can a player (NCAA) dribble the ball above the shoulder or head legally?

Yes depending on how the ball got there.

Originally Posted by bearclause

Is this really some secret society with some secret handshake? I understand it does take a lot of experience and training to learn everything and to perform it well at a high level. However - I love volleyball, and I know any number of refs who are perfectly willing to explain to the fan otherwise obscure points to the rulebook.

Volleyball has fans?

Peace

[bearclause]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

When I do watch NBA games, I have seen these called. So I really do not know what you are talking about. And I am not sure what the NBA has to do with this conversation. You are not asking about the NBA, you are asking about the NCAA.

I'm just referring to kids who emulate what they see their NBA heros get away with. I have been noticing carrying being called more in the NBA recently. The real eye-opener for me was seeing Kobe Bryant get called for a carry. However - I always thought that Michael Jordan in his prime got away with carrying quite often.

Originally Posted by JRutledge

Yes depending on how the ball got there.

OK - I was thinking of several dribbles where the max height is at maybe waist level, followed by one really high dribble where the hand remains reasonably on the top of the ball and never "freezes" near the apex of the dribble. Maybe the dribbler runs forward and the ball also is pushed forward on the downstroke. I know this is something best described by a video clip.

Originally Posted by JRutledge

Volleyball has fans?

Sure. The 2006 NCAA Women's Volleyball FF sold their entire public allotment in one day and should be filled to their 18K capacity.

Really though - the rules are in fairly plain English that almost free of obscure wording or technical jargon. It's not like trying to read one of my engineering datasheets. I would have thought someone would be willing to answer a few simple questions that might reduce some of the confusion out there. Frankly I don't care about what happened to this particular player any more - the team won and any violation called didn't affect the outcome. I'm just trying to be more informed about what I pay my money to see.

And just in case I haven't said it - thanks. I've always thought carrying the ball was fairly simple to spot, but apparently not. I appreciate anyone trying to help poor 'ol me understand.

[Old School]

Just to add, if you dribble the ball up around your shoulders, you increase the odds of carrying the ball because of what it takes to control the ball at this high dribble. Not a smart thing to continue to do as a player. You also increase the odds of having the ball stolen. Bottom line, bad habit by the player. My bet is his playing time will continue to decrease if he doesn't stop this.

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by bearclause

I'm just referring to kids who emulate what they see their NBA heros get away with. I have been noticing carrying being called more in the NBA recently. The real eye-opener for me was seeing Kobe Bryant get called for a carry. However - I always thought that Michael Jordan in his prime got away with carrying quite often.

Well I am sure the NBA was not calling the game based on what you thought.

Originally Posted by bearclause

OK - I was thinking of several dribbles where the max height is at maybe waist level, followed by one really high dribble where the hand remains reasonably on the top of the ball and never "freezes" near the apex of the dribble. Maybe the dribbler runs forward and the ball also is pushed forward on the downstroke. I know this is something best described by a video clip.

Yes it is. You have to see it to call it.

Originally Posted by bearclause

Sure. The 2006 NCAA Women's Volleyball FF sold their entire public allotment in one day and should be filled to their 18K capacity.

I was being facetious. It is nice that they sold out an 18,000 seat facility. The last time I checked NCAA Men's basketball are played in domes. Those usually have much more than 18,000 seats in them.

Originally Posted by bearclause

Really though - the rules are in fairly plain English that almost free of obscure wording or technical jargon. It's not like trying to read one of my engineering datasheets. I would have thought someone would be willing to answer a few simple questions that might reduce some of the confusion out there. Frankly I don't care about what happened to this particular player any more - the team won and any violation called didn't affect the outcome. I'm just trying to be more informed about what I pay my money to see.

The words are one thing, what you see is another issue all together. And having been an official for some time now in differnet sports, officials do not call things based solely on black and white definitions. This is the reason the NCAA and other officiating organizations use tape to illustrate points of view on what should be called and why. Without seeing the plays you are talking about, I am going to trust that the officials have a better knowledge of what took place than you or I in this situation.

Originally Posted by bearclause

And just in case I haven't said it - thanks. I've always thought carrying the ball was fairly simple to spot, but apparently not. I appreciate anyone trying to help poor 'ol me understand.

Of course is it simple when you have not been trained or every put on the striped shirt and whistle in your life. It is quite another to have to make that decision in a split second in live action.

Peace

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by Old School

Just to add, if you dribble the ball up around your shoulders, you increase the odds of carrying the ball because of what it takes to control the ball at this high dribble. Not a smart thing to continue to do as a player. You also increase the odds of having the ball stolen. Bottom line, bad habit by the player. My bet is his playing time will continue to decrease if he doesn't stop this.

Oh brother.

Peace

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally Posted by bearclause

I'd certainly like to understand what's the difference between a legal move and an illegal one. I'm not a subscriber to the services mentioned, so I don't have access to the video described.

You can get access without being a subscriber. Go to:

http://www.eofficials.com/

Just register as an "Affiliate". That's free. After registering and logging in, look at the left-hand side of the page under AFFILIATES AREA and click on NCAA. On the next page, click on MENS BASKETBALL. Then on the next page, you'll see VIDEO LIBRARY at the bottom. That's got a whole bunch of good stuff to watch.

Btw, it is nice to see a fan actually trying to learn the rules. Usually, we just get the whiners and b!tchers here.