Ncaa Blarge?

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by GoodwillRef

You would rather have two coaches yelling at you than one?

I would rather have two coaches complaining then one complaining that the only reason we picked one of the fouls was because our only purpose was to screw his/her team.

Peace

[Gimlet25id]

[QUOTE=JRutledge]

I do not how this got to be "my way." I do know if the officials on the floor followed the prescribed mechanics, this would not happen.

My fault....the men's way. I was referring to your stated opinion.

I would rather go with a double foul, then go with one of the calls and have the coach assume we picked the foul that would screw them. Coaches are already thinking we are screwing them. In my opinion, the Women's rule helps encourage that feeling. Of course coaches might understand the rule, but why put that doubt in their mind? Once again, this is my opinion.

Instead pick the fouls that make both coaches think your screwing them...Hmmm I will take my chances with getting the call correct and penalizing just one player and not both.

[JRutledge]

[QUOTE=Gimlet25id]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

Instead pick the fouls that make both coaches think your screwing them...Hmmm I will take my chances with getting the call correct and penalizing just one player and not both.

How are you guaranteeing you are getting the call correct? You might just pick the wrong one.

The bottom line is this should not happen. It is going to be a foul 2 seconds later than blowing the whistle too quickly and not making sure you did not see your partner.

As I stated before, this would not happen in the Men's side if the officials simply followed the mechanics.

Peace

[Gimlet25id]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

How are you guaranteeing you are getting the call correct? You might just pick the wrong one.

The bottom line is this should not happen. It is going to be a foul 2 seconds later than blowing the whistle too quickly and not making sure you did not see your partner.

As I stated before, this would not happen in the Men's side if the officials simply followed the mechanics.

Peace

I agree with you...this shouldn't happen on either side if we all were adhering to the proper mechanics.

When we get together we are not going to pick the wrong one. Most of the time the primary official will make the call. The official who's primary the block/charge happened in. The primary official is the one who is going to make the call. The other official who made a call is going to give information and leave it up to the primary official to make the call.

Just like if you had a double whistle with one being a foul and the other being a violation. The officials will get together and decide which call to go with.

JR, I understand where you are coming rom..IMO,I just can't see where it would ever be better to call a double foul instead on the correct foul in this scenerio.

[BktBallRef]

Originally Posted by jritchie

it does happen a lot because the play is coming from the T or C most of the time and they have seen the WHOLE PLAY and then the L comes over quick and has to try and make the call, instead of giving it to the one that has seen the play the whole time!

I disagree. Most times, it's a secondary defender who has stepped in. Since the L is not watching the ball handler, he has a better look at the secondary defender.

In the Carolina game last night, this happened and the L clearly had a better look at the play.

[Gimlet25id]

Originally Posted by BktBallRef

I disagree. Most times, it's a secondary defender who has stepped in. Since the L is not watching the ball handler, he has a better look at the secondary defender.

In the Carolina game last night, this happened and the L clearly had a better look at the play.

You bring up a good point. If a secondary defender comes across to defend then if you have a blarge and if this is a women's game both officials will get together and in this case lead would make this call since lead had the best look @ the secondary defenders LGP>

[Jesse James]

[QUOTE=Gimlet25id]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

I agree with you...this shouldn't happen on either side if we all were adhering to the proper mechanics.

When we get together we are not going to pick the wrong one. Most of the time the primary official will make the call. The official who's primary the block/charge happened in. The primary official is the one who is going to make the call. The other official who made a call is going to give information and leave it up to the primary official to make the call.

Just like if you had a double whistle with one being a foul and the other being a violation. The officials will get together and decide which call to go with.

JR, I understand where you are coming rom..IMO,I just can't see where it would ever be better to call a double foul instead on the correct foul in this scenerio.

That's ridiculous. A double whistle---foul and violation, are two separate acts. Both whistles may be completely correct, but the determining factor is which act came first. A single act (block/charge) with two differing interps is not the same.

[Gimlet25id]

Originally Posted by Jesse James

That's ridiculous. A double whistle---foul and violation, are two separate acts. Both whistles may be completely correct, but the determining factor is which act came first. A single act (block/charge) with two differing interps is not the same.

Don't take what I was saying out of context. My point was that there was 2 whistles and the officials got together to discuss the play. I don't care if its violation/foul or foul/foul. They still got together. The fact they got together and got the right call whether it was a violation or foul is my point. It's the same principle on the BLARGE. Both coaches want the call to their advantage. There is only one player @ fault not both. Neither coach wants a double foul..

[Scrapper1]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

I do know if the officials on the floor followed the prescribed mechanics, this would not happen.

I agree with this 1000%. It is absolutely, without a doubt, completely true.

It's also irrelevant.

It's going to happen. We're no longer talking about preventing the stupid mistake. We're talking about how to handle matters once the mistake is made. In my very humble opinion, I think the women's officials handle it better. Figure out who's right and go with that one.

[Jesse James]

Originally Posted by Gimlet25id

Don't take what I was saying out of context. My point was that there was 2 whistles and the officials got together to discuss the play. I don't care if its violation/foul or foul/foul. They still got together. The fact they got together and got the right call whether it was a violation or foul is my point. It's the same principle on the BLARGE. Both coaches want the call to their advantage. There is only one player @ fault not both. Neither coach wants a double foul..

After getting together with my partner, I always felt comfortable in telling a coach (for example) my partner had the walk, before I had the illegal screen, if that's what we had determined. I would never have felt comfortable in telling a coach my block call was better, or more informed, or more important than my partner's charge. Double foul ain't great, but it's most equitable.

[Raymond]

Originally Posted by ShadowStripes

There was also a Blarge in the the 2nd half of the Winthrop/UNC game last night. Tom Lopes at lead, Bernard Clinton at trail.

This is one where the women have it right, the double foul/POI solution is a mess and looks ridiculous.

I wonder if either coach said "But the ref wearing the side panels had the opposite call!!!"

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by Jesse James

That's ridiculous. A double whistle---foul and violation, are two separate acts. Both whistles may be completely correct, but the determining factor is which act came first. A single act (block/charge) with two differing interps is not the same.

How are you going to say what took place first when this is strictly a judgment call? You make it sound like there would be absolutely no disagreement on this. BTW, if the judgment is whether someone was in LGP or not, it would not be about what was first.

Peace

[Jesse James]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

How are you going to say what took place first when this is strictly a judgment call? You make it sound like there would be absolutely no disagreement on this. BTW, if the judgment is whether someone was in LGP or not, it would not be about what was first.

Peace

So you guys in Illinois defer to the ticket-taker?

[Gimlet25id]

Originally Posted by Jesse James

I always felt comfortable in telling a coach my partner had the walk, before I had the illegal screen. I would never have felt comfortable in telling a coach my block call was better, or more informed, or more important than my partner's charge. Double foul ain't great, but it's most equitable.

What if your partner was absolutely sure that the defender never established a LGP. In a Women's college game it's really a easy fix. The calling official would simply tell the coach, "I'm absolutely sure your player never established a LGP..it has to be a block. About the same way you would say my partner had the foul/violation first.

If I call a double foul is the block/charge situation how is that more equitable? Your penalizing a player who doesn't deserve it. I know none of us want to admit that we are wrong but in this case, block/charge, one of us is. You think telling a coach that we have to go double fouls is better then explaining to them that we got together and we are sure such and such happened and this is the way we are calling it.

Besides when ever there is a block/charge one official is sure what he/she has. In the men's game even though one official is sure, it doesn't matter. Because his partner had a brain fart he has to go double foul. Its just awful hard for me to believe that any of us would like to do that if we knew that we had the right call!!!

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by Gimlet25id

What if your partner was absolutely sure that the defender never established a LGP. In a Women's college game it's really a easy fix. The calling official would simply tell the coach, "I'm absolutely sure your player never established a LGP..it has to be a block. About the same way you would say my partner had the foul/violation first.

If I call a double foul is the block/charge situation how is that more equitable? Your penalizing a player who doesn't deserve it. I know none of us want to admit that we are wrong but in this case, block/charge, one of us is. You think telling a coach that we have to go double fouls is better then explaining to them that we got together and we are sure such and such happened and this is the way we are calling it.

Besides when ever there is a block/charge one official is sure what he/she has. In the men's game even though one official is sure, it doesn't matter. Because his partner had a brain fart he has to go double foul. Its just awful hard for me to believe that any of us would like to do that if we knew that we had the right call!!!

If you both see different things, how are you going to decide who is right and who is wrong?

I had a block charge years ago in a 2 man game and I had the PC foul and my partner called the block. My partner did not have the angle to see the push off by the ball handler. At that time we had never worked together (I have worked with this official several times since) and we obviously did not see the same thing. Now I think I was right, but I completely understood why he felt he was right as well. The double foul takes the guessing out of the call. Once again, if you do not want this to happen, take your time.

Peace