Ncaa Blarge?

[Jesse James]

Originally Posted by Gimlet25id

What if your partner was absolutely sure that the defender never established a LGP. In a Women's college game it's really a easy fix. The calling official would simply tell the coach, "I'm absolutely sure your player never established a LGP..it has to be a block. About the same way you would say my partner had the foul/violation first.

If I call a double foul is the block/charge situation how is that more equitable? Your penalizing a player who doesn't deserve it. I know none of us want to admit that we are wrong but in this case, block/charge, one of us is. You think telling a coach that we have to go double fouls is better then explaining to them that we got together and we are sure such and such happened and this is the way we are calling it.

Besides when ever there is a block/charge one official is sure what he/she has. In the men's game even though one official is sure, it doesn't matter. Because his partner had a brain fart he has to go double foul. Its just awful hard for me to believe that any of us would like to do that if we knew that we had the right call!!!

Because as a crew, you've already proven you're not sure. Two people in stripes saw the exact same play differently, and whistled such.

For what it's worth, Marshall and Williams didn't seem particularly non-plussed about the double foul result in the Carolina game last night. Seemed to understand the rule-Marshall gave a half-hearted wave-off afterward. Went about as well as a blarge can go.

[Daryl H. Long]

Please cite NCAA or NF rule defining BLARGE.

[Gimlet25id]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

If you both see different things, how are you going to decide who is right and who is wrong?

I had a block charge years ago in a 2 man game and I had the PC foul and my partner called the block. My partner did not have the angle to see the push off by the ball handler. At that time we had never worked together (I have worked with this official several times since) and we obviously did not see the same thing. Now I think I was right, but I completely understood why he felt he was right as well. The double foul takes the guessing out of the call. Once again, if you do not want this to happen, take your time.

Peace

Both players can't be wrong... Someone is wrong and someone is right. @ the college level we have tape that is going to back us up. If my partner comes to me and says he/she is absolutely sure something happened then I'm going with it. If that person says that then they know the tape will back them up.

In the block/charge in the men's game the coaches are going to look @ the tape and they will know who was right and who was wrong. If you have a chance to get it right during the game then get it right. Because if this happens and you get together and one of the partners says that they are sure of what happened then go with it. The coaches will still look @ the tape but will see that the tape backs up the call. I know that the men's game doesn't allow this to happen they have to go with a double foul. In the women's game we have the opportunity to correct it and go with the correct call and only penalize just one player and not two.

99% of the time when this happens the official who should've not been calling the play is going to come in and say just that. They will say something like, "I didn't have the best look @ it and I should've not been calling the foul." Then your going to go with the primary's call.

JR's right to just do everything you can to keep it from happening.

[Gimlet25id]

Originally Posted by Daryl H. Long

Please cite NCAA or NF rule defining BLARGE.

There is none. In the women's game they came out with a bulletion several years ago explaing how to handle it if it happens. Read the previous posts to see how.

[tomegun]

Originally Posted by BadNewsRef

Unless the Lead is calling across the paint, right Tomegun?

You were reading my mind!
This is something that I firmly believe should be talked about or trained on with perfection in mind. During the game things happen so trying to be perfect before hand could help. My thoughts:

• If there is a prelim, it should come from the lead
• If the play is on the C's side and the C has had the play the whole way to the basket, let the C make the call
• If the C doesn't make the call and the lead has a whistle, delay it enough for "Oh _____" to run through your mind

It still baffles the mind how many times the lead calls across the paint on ordinary, run of the mill, happens all the time, generic, simple, done it a million times, easy, why are you looking there anyway, if you want to look there you should have carried your tail over there, plays! Without fail, the lead will go tooting his/her tooter instead of letting the C do what they are there for.

[Scrapper1]

Originally Posted by Daryl H. Long

Please cite NCAA or NF rule defining BLARGE.

Case 4.19.8 Situation C.

[Raymond]

Originally Posted by Daryl H. Long

Please cite NCAA or NF rule defining BLARGE.

A.R. 159. (Men) A1 drives to the basket and (a) the referee calls a player-control foul and an umpire calls a block or; (b) the referee calls a charge and an umpire calls a block. RULING: This is uncharacteristic of a double personal foul where one official adjudicates the obviously committed fouls against two opponents. In (a) and (b), the two officials disagree that the fouls occurred simultaneously. In (a), the ball shall be awarded to Team A, the team in control, at the point of interruption with no reset of the shot clock. In (b), the two officials disagree as to whether there was a charge or a block, however, the ball was released by A1. Although there is no team control while a ball is in flight, when the goal is successful, play shall resume at the point of interruption by awarding the ball to Team B, the team not credited with the score, at the endline with the privilege to run the endline. When the try is not successful, play shall resume at the point of interruption with the use of the alternating possession arrow and a reset of the shot clock.

[tomegun]

Originally Posted by Gimlet25id

Evidently your way isn't working because the men are still having problems with calling the blarge even though the men don't advocate getting together and get the call right.The point is you will never, never prevent it. Nobody is advocating it. To be honest nobody wants it to happen.

If you call a double foul in this scenario then @ least one of the coaches is going to be pissed. Especially if he/she thinks that their player was the player that didn't foul. I agree that either way one of the coaches is going to be upset. I just don't think that by getting together and calling the right call is going to upset both coaches. Both coaches are more likely to be upset if you call the double foul. This is why the women went to getting together and getting the call correct. Why penalize both players?

It still happens because of politics and money. It may be off the subject, but don't get it twisted. If a guy that is getting 80 games a year thought that would be in jeopardy, and a supervisor would really take those games, blarges would decrease immediately!

[tomegun]

Originally Posted by Gimlet25id

When we get together we are not going to pick the wrong one.

Can you say that with certainty?

[tomegun]

Originally Posted by BktBallRef

I disagree. Most times, it's a secondary defender who has stepped in. Since the L is not watching the ball handler, he has a better look at the secondary defender.

In the Carolina game last night, this happened and the L clearly had a better look at the play.

To add to this good post, more times than not the lead will simply have a better look at this play than the T.

[Gimlet25id]

Originally Posted by tomegun

It still happens because of politics and money. It may be off the subject, but don't get it twisted. If a guy that is getting 80 games a year thought that would be in jeopardy, and a supervisor would really take those games, blarges would decrease immediately!

Not sure if I understand what you are trying to say?

[Gimlet25id]

Originally Posted by tomegun

Can you say that with certainty?

No, but my chances of getting it right are far greater then calling a double foul. One thing is for sure, if I call a double foul then I would be wrong 100% of the time.

[tomegun]

Originally Posted by Gimlet25id

No, but my chances of getting it right are far greater then calling a double foul. One thing is for sure, if I call a double foul then I would be wrong 100% of the time.

Wouldn't it be 50% wrong 100% of the time?

At least those odds are set in stone. In the Women's game you can't really give the odds because a dominant personality can trump someone who is right.

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by Gimlet25id

Both players can't be wrong... Someone is wrong and someone is right. @ the college level we have tape that is going to back us up. If my partner comes to me and says he/she is absolutely sure something happened then I'm going with it. If that person says that then they know the tape will back them up.

First of all if you really want to be technical, you could have a double foul in these situations. We just do not want to go there and rightfully so. We call double fouls in other aspects of the game so I do not know how you can make that statement. Also I was not talking about the players being right or wrong. I am talking about the judgment of the officials.

Originally Posted by Gimlet25id

In the block/charge in the men's game the coaches are going to look @ the tape and they will know who was right and who was wrong. If you have a chance to get it right during the game then get it right. Because if this happens and you get together and one of the partners says that they are sure of what happened then go with it. The coaches will still look @ the tape but will see that the tape backs up the call. I know that the men's game doesn't allow this to happen they have to go with a double foul. In the women's game we have the opportunity to correct it and go with the correct call and only penalize just one player and not two.

Here you go with the "get it right" line. I surely hope you have more to offer than that statement. You are "getting it right" when you are following what the rules say. If you pick one, someone is going to feel slighted. If you go with a double foul, you have a wash. It might not be the best thing, but at least there is not a question of "he did not give me a call night and here is another example." You make it sound like in the Women's game they will not look at tape and disagree with the foul that was decided upon.

Originally Posted by Gimlet25id

99% of the time when this happens the official who should've not been calling the play is going to come in and say just that. They will say something like, "I didn't have the best look @ it and I should've not been calling the foul." Then your going to go with the primary's call.

It is not always about whose primary. It could be who had the play from the beginning. Or who had the better angle. There are trouble areas in coverage areas and dual coverage areas.

Peace

[tomegun]

Originally Posted by Gimlet25id

Not sure if I understand what you are trying to say?

If officials were told to use the proper mechanics to eliminate blarges or their schedule will reflect, blarges would decrease.
Sort of funny like the NCAA tape showing all the mistakes from the previous year, during the tournament!