Dreaded BLARGE!

[Camron Rust]

Originally Posted by M&M Guy

Camron - the block/charge was what I had in mind when I made that statement; that's probably where 99% of these types of double-whistles will occur. I don't think it's an issue of one official overruling another as much as it is getting together to determine which one was right. There's already a similar precedence when you have one official signal a foul, and another signals a violation. You cetainly don't penalize both players in that double-whistle situation. Usually one official will come in and say, "The foul caused the player to travel, so I've got the foul!" It's picking one call and going with that. It just seems a little unusual that they picked only the block/charge double-whistle to go with the penalizing of both, especially since there is the issue of the defender either has the position, or they don't.

The difference is that the violation/foul double whistle are two differnet infractions, neither of which conflicts with the other. Determing which came first is all that must be determined and shouldn't be too hard to do.

The block/charge is two different interpretations of the same action. It is a judgement call. It's not matter of which came first but a determination of who is right. To determine a "right" call will usually require more information than is possible to have. More often than not, it would require that one official simply yield to the other.

[Kevzebra]

The NCAA Women's crews never have a blarge! Why? Cause we get together and decide where the play happened (primary) and go with that. Too many times officials that have no business looking at a play come up with something that he/she should not have!

I remember a play from our regional (HS) semi final last year (I was watching it) and a "player control foul" occured at the free throw line. The center had a GREAT look at the play comes up with a the correct call, but here was the lead, looking 15 feet out from the baseline and calling a block (oh, BTW, he went to the state tourney 2 years ago). So the lesson here is; if you do have a double whistle, do NOT give a prelim signal. Get with your partner and decide. Might look bad for one of you (but you can always say you had the same thing) and get the call right!

[deecee]

I dont remember if this question has been answered and I assume its the same as with a jump ball -- on a double foul (any of them) where we go to the POI and the offense retains possession do we reset the shot clock?

[Junker]

I think the women's side has this right. Ideally at any level, an official should have his or her fist in the air on all fouls before coming with a mechanic. I know we all slip and get excited to sell a call from time to time, but if officials slow down the way they do things, the blarge should not happen in my opinion.

[Camron Rust]

Originally Posted by Junker

I think the women's side has this right. Ideally at any level, an official should have his or her fist in the air on all fouls before coming with a mechanic. I know we all slip and get excited to sell a call from time to time, but if officials slow down the way they do things, the blarge should not happen in my opinion.

The women's side still has a hole in the approch....uncommon, but still a hole. What if the play occurs right on the boundary between the two primaries (both the defender and the dribbler have one foot in each primary) and the palyers are moving along that line...moving along it as if it is a balance beam. How is the decision made? It is not in any one officials primary. It it not going towards one official more than the other. One official must still chose to defer to the other in this case.

I agree that slowing down would mostly prevent blarges but it would not eliminate them. On more than one occassion, I've had a double whistle such that neither of us knew the other had even blown the whistle....the timing and duration of the whistle were identical and the acoustics of the gym conspired such that it wasn't discernable. We both raised our fists but never realized the other had....then made our calls....once or twice being opposite. It is rare, but I think it's happened to me twice in 13 years.

[Junker]

Well said Cameron. I've had a couple of close calls, but luckily mechanics were drilled into my head enough that when I was going to call the opposite of my partner I only had my fist in the air so we just went with their call. We did, however, discuss the play in the locker room afterwards.

[rockyroad]

Originally Posted by Camron Rust

The women's side still has a hole in the approch....uncommon, but still a hole. What if the play occurs right on the boundary between the two primaries (both the defender and the dribbler have one foot in each primary) and the palyers are moving along that line...moving along it as if it is a balance beam. How is the decision made? It is not in any one officials primary. It it not going towards one official more than the other. One official must still chose to defer to the other in this case.

I sincerely hope that you are being facetious here...but just in case you aren't - the rule of thumb is the ball is in "my" primary until I release it...so this balancing act you're talking about had to start somewhere - we'll say the backcourt where the T has the play - and then progress into the perfect balancing act along the imaginary line separating our primary areas - so the T would still have primary call on it...the NCAA-W method really is the best way to handle this situation. I detest the fact that you can have two polar opposite calls on the same play and have to report both.

[Camron Rust]

Originally Posted by rockyroad

I sincerely hope that you are being facetious here...but just in case you aren't - the rule of thumb is the ball is in "my" primary until I release it...so this balancing act you're talking about had to start somewhere - we'll say the backcourt where the T has the play - and then progress into the perfect balancing act along the imaginary line separating our primary areas - so the T would still have primary call on it...the NCAA-W method really is the best way to handle this situation. I detest the fact that you can have two polar opposite calls on the same play and have to report both.

No, I was not being facetious at all. The rule of thumb you just stated still puts the ultimate call, not up to a subjective determination, but on the egos of the officials involved....some (not all, but some, maybe only a few) will "expand" their primaries just to keep the call even when they may be completely wrong.

[ChuckElias]

Originally Posted by deecee

I dont remember if this question has been answered and I assume its the same as with a jump ball -- on a double foul (any of them) where we go to the POI and the offense retains possession do we reset the shot clock?

If there is team control at the time of the double foul, no reset. NCAA 2-14-7f.