The ever dreaded "Blarge"

[w_sohl]

Watched a varsity game last night and saw this very thing happen. Lead official comes out signalling the table with a player control foul as center is going into the crowd and signals a block. They discussed it for about 3-4 mins. and I still wasn't sure what they did to handle the sitch. It is my understanding that in this sitch you report both fouls, wipe off any basket if made and use the APA to determine who gets the ball. Please correct me if I am wrong or if I left anything out.

[BktBallRef]

Yes, it is a double foul.

4.19.7 SITUATION C:
A1 drives for a try and jumps and releases the ball. Contact occurs between A1 and B1 after the release and before airborne shooter A1 returns to the floor. One official calls a blocking foul on B1 and the other official calls a charging foul on A1. The try is successful.

RULING: Even though airborne shooter A1 committed a charging foul, it is not a player-control foul because the two fouls result in a double personal foul. The double foul does not cause the ball to become dead on the try and the goal is scored. An alternating-possession throw-in results.

[NICK]

In this situation, where A team has "scored basket" on the double foul, does the B team not automatically get possession of the ball for a throw-in?

[BktBallRef]

Originally posted by NICK
In this situation, where A team has "scored basket" on the double foul, does the B team not automatically get possession of the ball for a throw-in?

No. Anytime a double foul occurs, the team with the arrow gets the ball.

In this play, the team with the AP arrow gets the ball at the spot nearest the foul for a throw-in.

[NICK]

If A team has arrow, does it mean that team B will be disadvantaged? as it would mean team A gets possession twice and has chance to score twice. Just curious.

[JRutledge]

Originally posted by NICK
If A team has arrow, does it mean that team B will be disadvantaged? as it would mean team A gets possession twice and has chance to score twice. Just curious.

What difference does it make? That is the rule. It happens in many other situations. Why would this be any different?

Peace

[Rich]

Originally posted by BktBallRef
Yes, it is a double foul.

4.19.7 SITUATION C:
A1 drives for a try and jumps and releases the ball. Contact occurs between A1 and B1 after the release and before airborne shooter A1 returns to the floor. One official calls a blocking foul on B1 and the other official calls a charging foul on A1. The try is successful.

RULING: Even though airborne shooter A1 committed a charging foul, it is not a player-control foul because the two fouls result in a double personal foul. The double foul does not cause the ball to become dead on the try and the goal is scored. An alternating-possession throw-in results.

Sure. I bet this gets enforced a lot. More than likely the two officials come together, decide whose primary it was in and report that one foul. I'm not saying that is the proper FED interp, cause it isn't, but I would bet this is what gets done most of the time a blarge happens.

[JRutledge]

Originally posted by Rich Fronheiser


Sure. I bet this gets enforced a lot. More than likely the two officials come together, decide whose primary it was in and report that one foul. I'm not saying that is the proper FED interp, cause it isn't, but I would bet this is what gets done most of the time a blarge happens.

No matter what happens, this is just a horrible situation. No one is going to be happy. Both coaches are going to think you are crazy for doing whatever. This is why this should be talked about in the pregame and you can prevent it.

Peace

[Danvrapp]

Originally posted by w_sohl
They discussed it for about 3-4 mins.

Yuck. It's gotta be quicker.

[oc]

Originally posted by Rich Fronheiser

Sure. I bet this gets enforced a lot. More than likely the two officials come together, decide whose primary it was in and report that one foul. I'm not saying that is the proper FED interp, cause it isn't, but I would bet this is what gets done most of the time a blarge happens.

So far (In my short career) I have never seen it happen as per the case book. But if both refs signal what they called without getting eye contact first they are stuck and should do it this way.

[Rich]

Originally posted by JRutledge

No matter what happens, this is just a horrible situation. No one is going to be happy. Both coaches are going to think you are crazy for doing whatever. This is why this should be talked about in the pregame and you can prevent it.

Peace

I agree. Almost had one the other night, to be honest. In your fine state, Mr. Rutledge.

I'm trail and player drive from my area (3 officials). Huge collision and to me the B player had, and never lost, legal guarding position. I go up with a fist (fortunately) because my L came out strong with a block, whacking his hips and shouting BLOCK. I was going to go the other way had this not happened -- I dropped my fist and slid down to take the L's place for the free throws.

I'm not saying I was right and he was wrong. We saw it differently, I guess.

Later in the same game, I'm C on ball and the ball handler on my side (L didn't have time to rotate over) hooks the defender going by. I signal strong, but for some reason use the college team control signal. Both partners asked me if it was player control (with a hand behind the head gesture) after I had gotten into position since we were in the bonus. Bad mechanics, so my partners didn't know what I had called. Don't think anyone noticed unless there were officials in the crowd.

I'll get it right one of these days....or move on to college ball where my mechanics would've been flawless.

Rich

[Dan_ref]

Originally posted by Rich Fronheiser


Later in the same game, I'm C on ball and the ball handler on my side (L didn't have time to rotate over) hooks the defender going by. I signal strong, but for some reason use the college team control signal. Both partners asked me if it was player control (with a hand behind the head gesture) after I had gotten into position since we were in the bonus. Bad mechanics, so my partners didn't know what I had called. Don't think anyone noticed unless there were officials in the crowd.
Rich

Rich, I'm not following this. The call was a PC, right? The PC signal in men's is the same as fed - hand behind the head.

Oops, now maybe I get it. Did you use the woman's punch to signal the PC?

[Rich]

Originally posted by Dan_ref

Rich, I'm not following this. The call was a PC, right? The PC signal in men's is the same as fed - hand behind the head.

Oops, now maybe I get it. Did you use the woman's punch to signal the PC?

Yes, that's what I did. I never did this until I went to a women's camp this past summer. I only seem to do it when I'm outside, too.

Bad habits.

Has anyone ever gotten in a habit of having their back to the court when calling a ball out of bounds? I've done that a few times and KNOW I've done that. Only do it during 3-person. I find myself following the ball out of bounds in the corner, and instead of turning back towards the court, opening up, and signalling, I'm signalling facing the corner.

After doing it, I kick myself for a while. Doesn't mean I've broken the habit, though.

Rich

[bigwhistle]

Originally posted by Rich Fronheiser

Yes, that's what I did. I never did this until I went to a women's camp this past summer. I only seem to do it when I'm outside, too.


[/B][/QUOTE]

Ever think of scheduling games indoors to improve your mechanics?

[DJ]

I'm sure all this was discussed in the pregame? Three to four minutes seems like a long time but if they got the call right then it was the right thing to do!! Who cares how long anything takes as long as we get it right. It is a common procedure to talk about many calls as a group on a football crew. If the call was that close a double foul certainly would be better than one official getting his way because he has a stronger personality. That is not good officiating!