The Official Forum  

Go Back   The Official Forum > Basketball

Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Rate Thread Display Modes
  #1 (permalink)  
Old Sun Feb 27, 2005, 03:42pm
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Posts: 41
Last night in a regional final, we had a block/charge. We had a three man crew, two of which had worked all year together and one was from another part of the state. We all got together after the call and discussed what we were going to do. We had discussed in pre game what was to happen: double foul, go to possesion arrow. We got together, talked about it and went with the double foul, bucket counts, and go to possesion arrow. We told both coaches what we had and what the rule was. They were fine with the decision. I know MTD would probably disagree based on his previous posts pertaining to this topic. I was at fault because in pre game we talked about coverage areas and who follow who on a drive to the bucket. I was Lead table side and felt Center had not gotten back down court quick enough to cover the play--it was semi-fastbreak. Live and learn I guess. We never decided what it actually was, though?
__________________
NOT SO FAST MY FRIEND
Reply With Quote
  #2 (permalink)  
Old Sun Feb 27, 2005, 03:55pm
M.A.S.H.
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Texas
Posts: 5,024
Quote:
Originally posted by OFISHE8
I know MTD would probably disagree based on his previous posts pertaining to this topic.
And me too! Nasty call, but by rule you got it right. Just like MTD, I don't agree with the case book. But you've nailed it: Live and learn!

[Edited by tjones1 on Feb 27th, 2005 at 04:54 PM]
Reply With Quote
  #3 (permalink)  
Old Sun Feb 27, 2005, 04:01pm
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Posts: 56
The threads by MTD you refer must've been written before I became aware of this forum.

However, from the original post here, can you please enlighten me as to how a blarge could possibly be considered as a double foul.

Thanks
Reply With Quote
  #4 (permalink)  
Old Sun Feb 27, 2005, 04:12pm
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Posts: 41
THe rule is 5.3C in the case book I believe. It is written as a scapegoat for this officiating blunder. Instead of deciding on who is correct, this moves the blame to both instead of one.
__________________
NOT SO FAST MY FRIEND
Reply With Quote
  #5 (permalink)  
Old Sun Feb 27, 2005, 04:31pm
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Posts: 56
Unhappy

4.19.7 Situation C: in the Case book

geeeeeeesh

I've NEVER seen this ruling used on the floor. One of the officials has always relinquished the play to a partner and taken the heat for doing so (from the coach that is losing the call), lol.

Now, I'm assuming MTD's previous posts on this topic might contain something similar to this ruling being a direct contradiction of the rule had there not been a blarge called?

I mean, how can this basket be good, when, if one official would not have called a blocking foul, the basket would not have counted???

Wish I would've been here when the previous threads on this topic were discussed
Reply With Quote
  #6 (permalink)  
Old Sun Feb 27, 2005, 06:03pm
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Posts: 41
Goal is awarded because the double foul call is not a player control, thus the bucket counts.
__________________
NOT SO FAST MY FRIEND
Reply With Quote
  #7 (permalink)  
Old Sun Feb 27, 2005, 06:36pm
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Aug 1999
Location: In the offseason.
Posts: 11,920
Quote:
Originally posted by RollTide
The threads by MTD you refer must've been written before I became aware of this forum.

However, from the original post here, can you please enlighten me as to how a blarge could possibly be considered as a double foul.

Thanks
Neither official has the priority over the other...if both have signaled, you can't take either one back since they're just differing judgements on the same act. Since they are fouls by two opponents against each other at the same time, it becomes a double foul. Since it is no longer a PC foul, the bucket can count if it goes. No FTs. Go the arrow.
__________________
Owner/Developer of RefTown.com
Reply With Quote
  #8 (permalink)  
Old Sun Feb 27, 2005, 06:40pm
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Posts: 508
Slip-sliding away, the language

Quote:
Originally posted by OFISHE8
Last night in a regional final, we had a block/charge. We had a three man crew, two of which had worked all year together and one was from another part of the state. We all got together after the call and discussed what we were going to do. We had discussed in pre game what was to happen: double foul, go to possesion arrow. We got together, talked about it and went with the double foul, bucket counts, and go to possesion arrow. We told both coaches what we had and what the rule was. They were fine with the decision. I know MTD would probably disagree based on his previous posts pertaining to this topic. I was at fault because in pre game we talked about coverage areas and who follow who on a drive to the bucket. I was Lead table side and felt Center had not gotten back down court quick enough to cover the play--it was semi-fastbreak. Live and learn I guess. We never decided what it actually was, though?
"three man crew, two of which"

Humor me. " . . . two of whom . . . "
__________________
Sarchasm: the gulf between the author of sarcastic wit and the recipient.
Reply With Quote
  #9 (permalink)  
Old Sun Feb 27, 2005, 07:01pm
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Aug 1999
Location: In the offseason.
Posts: 11,920
Quote:
Originally posted by RollTide
4.19.7 Situation C: in the Case book

geeeeeeesh

I've NEVER seen this ruling used on the floor. One of the officials has always relinquished the play to a partner and taken the heat for doing so (from the coach that is losing the call), lol.

Now, I'm assuming MTD's previous posts on this topic might contain something similar to this ruling being a direct contradiction of the rule had there not been a blarge called?
MTD's previous point is that the act it self can not both be a charge and a block. One of the officials is actually wrong. The case play is the way to resolve this occassional conflict.

Quote:
Originally posted by RollTide

I mean, how can this basket be good, when, if one official would not have called a blocking foul, the basket would not have counted???
If the one who called PC hadn't called a foul, the bucket would count and the shooter would go to the line. Either direction and someone gets the short end of the stick.

The double is a reasonable comprimise.
__________________
Owner/Developer of RefTown.com
Reply With Quote
  #10 (permalink)  
Old Sun Feb 27, 2005, 09:02pm
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2003
Posts: 2,557
That's tough but I you did the right thing by going by the book.
Reply With Quote
  #11 (permalink)  
Old Sun Feb 27, 2005, 09:25pm
Administrator
 
Join Date: Sep 1999
Location: Toledo, Ohio, U.S.A.
Posts: 7,789
Quote:
Originally posted by Camron Rust
Quote:
Originally posted by RollTide
4.19.7 Situation C: in the Case book

geeeeeeesh

I've NEVER seen this ruling used on the floor. One of the officials has always relinquished the play to a partner and taken the heat for doing so (from the coach that is losing the call), lol.

Now, I'm assuming MTD's previous posts on this topic might contain something similar to this ruling being a direct contradiction of the rule had there not been a blarge called?
MTD's previous point is that the act it self can not both be a charge and a block. One of the officials is actually wrong. The case play is the way to resolve this occassional conflict.

Quote:
Originally posted by RollTide

I mean, how can this basket be good, when, if one official would not have called a blocking foul, the basket would not have counted???
If the one who called PC hadn't called a foul, the bucket would count and the shooter would go to the line. Either direction and someone gets the short end of the stick.

The double is a reasonable comprimise.

To everybody reading this thread:

Camron has done a very good job of explaining my position on blarges. And RollTide is correct in stating my position that if a defender either has a legal guarding position or he doesn't have a legal guarding position.

My complaint about NFHS Casebook Play 4.19.7, Sit. C really is based not upon the definition of a double personal foul, but upon NFHS R2-S6 (Officials' Authority), which states that: "No official has the authority to set aside or question decisions made by the other official(s) within the limits of their respective outlined duties."

Blarges can be eliminated with the following: 1) Have a good pregame; 2) Officiate your primary; and 3) Trust your partner(s).

MTD, Sr.
__________________
Mark T. DeNucci, Sr.
Trumbull Co. (Warren, Ohio) Bkb. Off. Assn.
Wood Co. (Bowling Green, Ohio) Bkb. Off. Assn.
Ohio Assn. of Basketball Officials
International Assn. of Approved Bkb. Officials
Wood Co. (Bowling Green, Ohio) Ump. Assn.
Ohio High School Athletic Association
Toledo, Ohio
Reply With Quote
  #12 (permalink)  
Old Sun Feb 27, 2005, 09:57pm
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Quebec, Canada
Posts: 159
Red face Re: Slip-sliding away, the language

Quote:
Originally posted by assignmentmaker
"three man crew, two of which"

Humor me. " . . . two of whom . . . "
Who cares...
Reply With Quote
  #13 (permalink)  
Old Sun Feb 27, 2005, 10:35pm
Rich's Avatar
Get away from me, Steve.
 
Join Date: Aug 2000
Posts: 15,693
Re: Re: Slip-sliding away, the language

Quote:
Originally posted by QuebecRef87
Quote:
Originally posted by assignmentmaker
"three man crew, two of which"

Humor me. " . . . two of whom . . . "
Who cares...
Or is it "whom" cares?
Reply With Quote
  #14 (permalink)  
Old Sun Feb 27, 2005, 10:54pm
Adam's Avatar
Keeper of the HAMMER
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: MST
Posts: 27,191
Re: Re: Re: Slip-sliding away, the language

Quote:
Originally posted by Rich Fronheiser
Quote:
Originally posted by QuebecRef87
Quote:
Originally posted by assignmentmaker
"three man crew, two of which"

Humor me. " . . . two of whom . . . "
Who cares...
Or is it "whom" cares?
Now that's just ugly grammar.
__________________
Sprinkles are for winners.
Reply With Quote
  #15 (permalink)  
Old Sun Feb 27, 2005, 11:27pm
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: Western Mass.
Posts: 9,104
Send a message via AIM to ChuckElias
Re: Re: Slip-sliding away, the language

Quote:
Originally posted by QuebecRef87
Quote:
Originally posted by assignmentmaker
"three man crew, two of which"

Humor me. " . . . two of whom . . . "
Who cares...
Mr. Grammar Guy cares, wherever he may be . . .
__________________
Any NCAA rules and interpretations in this post are relevant for men's games only!
Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools
Display Modes Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 05:20am.



Search Engine Friendly URLs by vBSEO 3.3.0 RC1