The Dreaded Infield Fly Effect

[aceholleran]

Who among us hasn't seen this one.

R1 + R2. 0 out. Batter lofts fly between F1 and F6. I see F6 get under it and I call Infield Fly.

F6 drops the ball, R1 runs toward 2B; R1 is tagged out.

Coach: "You didn't yell 'Infield Fly' loud enough."

I said, "Did I point it high enough?"

Q.E.D. Another candidate for the Dead Cranium Society.

Ace

[mattmets]

Runner should know the rule, or coach should tell him.

F*^@ 'em.

[DG]

Originally Posted by aceholleran

Coach: "You didn't yell 'Infield Fly' loud enough."

"Have you provided any coaching on infield fly situations?"

[TussAgee11]

Had one today. R1 and R2 - first baseman simply let the ball fall to the ground (easily catchable, just wanted to see what would happen). This is an AAU game for petes sakes, and the kids didn't have a clue.

R2 was a couple steps off the bag, and bolted to third. He actually got there (bad throw, F5 bobbled it). Then the Defensive Coach yelled at the pitcher to appeal that the runner left 2nd early. They properly appealed (except what the hell were they appealing?!?)

I just stood there, looking at the fielder with the ball. Defensive Coach came out and wanted an explanation. Evidently mine was not satisfictory to his high standards.

Coach: "HE LEFT EARLY! HES OUT, YOU GOTTA KNOW THAT"
Me: "Coach, calm down (matching his intensity, then allowing a moment of silence, and back to normal tone). I'm willing to talk to you here civily. When you say he left early coach, what event are you comparing him leaving early to in the time continum of this game?"
Coach (puzzled): "ahh, the catch!"
Me: "What catch?"
Coach: "The one the first baseman let fall to the ground."
Me: "So what are you asking again?"
Coach: "How come he doesn't have to tag up?"
Me: "Because nobody caught the ball"
Coach: "But the batter was out, its just as good as a catch."
Me: "No, its anything but a catch. We're done here, we're holding up the game. If you continue to argue this you are placing yourself in jeopardy. (trots back to my position)

Coach (walking back to dugout): "You need to look in a rulebook".


I contemplating coming back at him for that last comment, but didn't. He was headed back to the dugout, which was my whole goal to begin with.

Being a second year ump, did I do a good job with this one? Or was I much to lenient? Input desired.

[GarthB]

Originally Posted by TussAgee11

Had one today. R1 and R2 - first baseman simply let the ball fall to the ground (easily catchable, just wanted to see what would happen). This is an AAU game for petes sakes, and the kids didn't have a clue.

R2 was a couple steps off the bag, and bolted to third. He actually got there (bad throw, F5 bobbled it). Then the Defensive Coach yelled at the pitcher to appeal that the runner left 2nd early. They properly appealed (except what the hell were they appealing?!?)

I just stood there, looking at the fielder with the ball. Defensive Coach came out and wanted an explanation. Evidently mine was not satisfictory to his high standards.

Coach: "HE LEFT EARLY! HES OUT, YOU GOTTA KNOW THAT"
Me: "Coach, calm down (matching his intensity, then allowing a moment of silence, and back to normal tone). I'm willing to talk to you here civily. When you say he left early coach, what event are you comparing him leaving early to in the time continum of this game?"
Coach (puzzled): "ahh, the catch!"
Me: "What catch?"
Coach: "The one the first baseman let fall to the ground."
Me: "So what are you asking again?"
Coach: "How come he doesn't have to tag up?"
Me: "Because nobody caught the ball"
Coach: "But the batter was out, its just as good as a catch."
Me: "No, its anything but a catch. We're done here, we're holding up the game. If you continue to argue this you are placing yourself in jeopardy. (trots back to my position)

Coach (walking back to dugout): "You need to look in a rulebook".


I contemplating coming back at him for that last comment, but didn't. He was headed back to the dugout, which was my whole goal to begin with.

Being a second year ump, did I do a good job with this one? Or was I much to lenient? Input desired.

Why play games with the coach? You knew what he meant and you knew the answer. You extended the time he spent on the field, which according to your post, delayed your objective.

Coach: "HE LEFT EARLY! HES OUT, YOU GOTTA KNOW THAT"
Me: "Coach, there was no catch; the runners do not need to tag."

Trot to my next position.

[TussAgee11]

I know what you mean Garth. I guess I did play games with him. Probably just getting myelf into more potential trouble....

He had been a real *** to my partner in the preceeding game of the double header, so I guess I had a secondary motive of making him feel like a complete idiot. Didn't really realize this at the time.

[aceholleran]

Yeah, Tuss. I have been guilty of the same thing--extending a conversation with an a$$hole coach.

If your duty is to "defuse"--and 99% of the time that's what we should be doing in contentious sitches--I think ya wanna be as succinct as possible. Let HIM take it to the next level.

Ace

[bluezebra]

Originally Posted by TussAgee11

Had one today. R1 and R2 - first baseman simply let the ball fall to the ground (easily catchable, just wanted to see what would happen). This is an AAU game for petes sakes, and the kids didn't have a clue.

R2 was a couple steps off the bag, and bolted to third. He actually got there (bad throw, F5 bobbled it). Then the Defensive Coach yelled at the pitcher to appeal that the runner left 2nd early. They properly appealed (except what the hell were they appealing?!?)

I just stood there, looking at the fielder with the ball. Defensive Coach came out and wanted an explanation. Evidently mine was not satisfictory to his high standards.

Coach: "HE LEFT EARLY! HES OUT, YOU GOTTA KNOW THAT"
Me: "Coach, calm down (matching his intensity, then allowing a moment of silence, and back to normal tone). I'm willing to talk to you here civily. When you say he left early coach, what event are you comparing him leaving early to in the time continum of this game?"
Coach (puzzled): "ahh, the catch!"
Me: "What catch?"
Coach: "The one the first baseman let fall to the ground."
Me: "So what are you asking again?"
Coach: "How come he doesn't have to tag up?"
Me: "Because nobody caught the ball"
Coach: "But the batter was out, its just as good as a catch."
Me: "No, its anything but a catch. We're done here, we're holding up the game. If you continue to argue this you are placing yourself in jeopardy. (trots back to my position)

Coach (walking back to dugout): "You need to look in a rulebook".


I contemplating coming back at him for that last comment, but didn't. He was headed back to the dugout, which was my whole goal to begin with.

Being a second year ump, did I do a good job with this one? Or was I much to lenient? Input desired.

Coach (walking back to dugout): "You need to look in a rulebook".

And YOU need to find the gate to the parking lot. You are no longer a part of this game.

Bob

[Uncle George]

BluZebra, I'm with you only I tell the coach, I've got one, read it and it says I can throw you out of the game which I'm doing right now!

[TussAgee11]

One more thing, I've also found that if you just give a coach a quick explanation and trot away, they feel very cheated, and will probably come back after you. Then its toss time, since you've trotted away.

I think sometimes its good to entertain them for 15-20 seconds, just to make them feel as though they actually got a chance. If you nip them in the bud real quick, they feel as though they never got in what they wanted to say.

So I try to let them get it out for 15 or so seconds (I actually count in my head), before interupting and telling him why I ruled what I did, and then always ending with the "you continue to argue this, you are placing yourself in jeapordy (not Ken Jennings)."

[SanDiegoSteve]

Originally Posted by TussAgee11

"you continue to argue this, you are placing yourself in jeapordy (not Ken Jennings)."

Ken Jennings would have known that it's "jeopardy."

[GarthB]

Originally Posted by TussAgee11

One more thing, I've also found that if you just give a coach a quick explanation and trot away, they feel very cheated, and will probably come back after you. Then its toss time, since you've trotted away.

"

I guess the lessons from your experience since 1972 have been far different than mine. I find that if I give the coach, skipper or manager an honest and brief explanation, they except it. I have also seen how coaches react when umpires play word games with them. Far more of those end up ejected.

[Carbide Keyman]

Originally Posted by GarthB

I guess the lessons from your experience since 1972 have been far different than mine. I find that if I give the coach, skipper or manager an honest and brief explanation, they except it. I have also seen how coaches react when umpires play word games with them. Far more of those end up ejected.

Just echoing what Garth and Ace have said. I have found the briefest contact with any coach is the best,(I want to credit Tee or HHH with saying your explanation in five words or less). Then off to your position.

If the coach follows, he has somewhere more important to be than that particular game.



Doug

[TussAgee11]

Fair enough, I'll take the advice.

To be honest, there are plenty of game situations / coach confrentations that get me a little confused on how to act. Game managment and the such is probably the last thing to be found out by an umpire. Hopefully threads like this will accelerate that process for myself, with the attempt to become a better umpire in the future (we can always get better, even the best!)

I'm never rattled by coaches, but I've just never learned how to deal with them. And each situation with a Coach is different. Still struggling with this part I guess. Thanks for the input

[mbyron]

Don't feel bad, Tuss. "Situations" dictate which pro umps ultimately make it to the bigs. Everyone who advances past AA knows the rules, mechanics, etc., but not everyone can handle "situations," since by definition no simple rule or set of rules handles every case, every coach, every player.

This is a good reason to heed rules of thumb from experienced officials, but there is simply no substitute for your own experience, judgment, and personality.