Comments On NFHS Changes

[Dan_ref]

Originally Posted by BktBallRef

That's the best you can do, pick a word out you don't like, rather than address the comparison?



ReallY? I've just looked through every post that you written in this thread and I don't see this statement anywhere.



THANK YOU! So what's wrong with doing the same thing with the FT situation?

You're obviously not reading my posts. I posted twice exactly when I'll do this. I also posted when I do not do this & exactly why.

Go back, reread the thread, & try again. You can do much better than this.

[BktBallRef]

Originally Posted by Dan_ref

You're obviously not reading my posts. I posted twice exactly when I'll do this. I also posted when I do not do this & exactly why.

Go back, reread the thread, & try again. You can do much better than this.

Well, let's see. Here' s your first post.

Originally Posted by Dan_ref

This is getting silly.

If you're standing next a coach and he mutters "Timeout on the make" during any part of a free throw - or while his player or an opponent puts up a field goal attempt - then give it to him. Just give him the TO & move on.

IMO to make him ask again makes you an annoying irritant.

Second post.

Originally Posted by Dan_ref

Can anyone provide a rules reference for this btw?

I didn't look in the nfhs book but from what I can tell the ncaa book does not constrain a coach/player to request a TO only during the time it can be granted. It only says when the official may actually grant a request after it is requested.

Third post.

Originally Posted by Dan_ref

Thanks.

Although in the case play it does say the request shall be denied, we can infer that the request shall be denied at that time only to be granted at a later time. Where does it say a request that is made at the wrong time needs to be resubmitted?

FWIW, the relevant ncaa rule is under 5-9, which says:

Art. 3. Grants a player’s visual or oral request for a timeout, such request being granted when:
a. The ball is in control or at the disposal of a player of his or her team.
Exception 1: After the throw-in starts, no timeout shall be granted to the opponents of the throw-in team.
Exception 2: No timeout may be granted during an interrupted dribble.
b. The ball is dead.
c. A disqualified or injured player(s) has been replaced when a substitute(s) is available.
Art. 4. Grants a coach’s request for a timeout, such request being granted only when the coach’s team is in possession of the ball (this includes throwins and free throws) or when the ball is dead. The official must be certain the request was made by the head coach.

I don't see any related AR's.

FWIW2, when I can't grant a request per rule during a loose ball etc I do ask "still want it" when the the coach's team takes control of the ball. Often enough this is a gut reaction by the coach, or even a premediated attempt to get a TO when he knows it's not to be granted by rule. When a coach asks prematurely and conditionally for a TO (ie requests on the make when a shot/FT is in the air) I grant it without re-asking on the make. He's a big boy, I'm assuming he knows what he wants in this case.

As someone else said, it's just what I do. If you feel the need to do differently then do so.

Fourth post.

Originally Posted by Dan_ref

Well, if at the half he asks for a TO at the first dead ball with under 1 minute left he is a stupid ****er.

Even in NC I suppose.

At which point I asked "LOL! That's my point. At what point do you allow a coach to request a TO for later and at one point do you draw the line?"

Fifth post.

Originally Posted by Dan_ref

It sez when the official is allowed to recognize the request.

It sez nothing at all about when the request should be made.

If it was as clear as you make it out to be the rule would say

"The game clock ...shall be stopped when an official recognizes a request by the head coach or a player for a time out that is made after a goal until the subsequent throw-in begins".

Sixth post.

Originally Posted by Dan_ref

I already told you.

If he requests a TO on the make during a FT or while a shot's in the air.

Sorry my friend, but nowhere in those first 5 posts do you address my question. I'm addressing the principle of requesting of TO in advance. You'll do it on a FT but not at other times? How about duyring a loose ball? How is that different?

I'm done, before I make you mad.

[Dan_ref]

Originally Posted by BktBallRef

Well, let's see. Here' s your first post.



Second post.



Third post.



Fourth post.



At which point I asked "LOL! That's my point. At what point do you allow a coach to request a TO for later and at one point do you draw the line?"

Fifth post.



Sixth post.



Sorry my friend, but nowhere in those first 5 posts do you address my question.

I'm done, before I make you mad.

I've given my position.

You just don't accept it.

No problem, I'll live.

:shrug:

[BktBallRef]

Originally Posted by Dan_ref

I've given my position.

You just don't accept it.

No problem, I'll live.

:shrug:

I accept your position, no matter how wrong it is.

I just didn't realize we weren't allowed to discuss it.

[Dan_ref]

Originally Posted by BktBallRef

I just didn't realize we weren't allowed to discuss it.

sigh....

when did I say that?

(I fell like I need to ask "Hey coach? We looking at the same game? Cause we sure aint seeing the same game.")

[BktBallRef]

Originally Posted by Dan_ref

sigh....

when did I say that?

(I fell like I need to ask "Hey coach? We looking at the same game? Cause we sure aint seeing the same game.")

Great! We can continue to discuss it. Then please explain why you would grant a timeout in one situation and not in another.

SITUATION 1 - During the first of two FTs, Coach A asks Dan_ref for a timeout after the second FT, if it is made. There is no team control or player control and the ball is live when the request is made.

SITUATION 2 - While the ball is rolling around on the floor, Coach A asks Dan_ref for a timeout, if one of his players gets the ball. There is no team control or player control and the ball is live when the request is made.

[Dan_ref]

Originally Posted by BktBallRef

Great! We can continue to discuss it. Then please explain why you would grant a timeout in one situation and not in another.

SITUATION 1 - During the first of two FTs, Coach A asks Dan_ref for a timeout after the second FT, if it is made. There is no team control or player control and the ball is live when the request is made.

SITUATION 2 - While the ball is rolling around on the floor, Coach A asks Dan_ref for a timeout, if one of his players gets the ball. There is no team control or player control and the ball is live when the request is made.

Tony, we did discuss it & I answered your questions even before you posted them.

Here is exactly what I said, word for word including typos, which includes my reasoning:

FWIW2, when I can't grant a request per rule during a loose ball etc I do ask "still want it" when the the coach's team takes control of the ball. Often enough this is a gut reaction by the coach, or even a premediated attempt to get a TO when he knows it's not to be granted by rule. When a coach asks prematurely and conditionally for a TO (ie requests on the make when a shot/FT is in the air) I grant it without re-asking on the make. He's a big boy, I'm assuming he knows what he wants in this case.

As someone else said, it's just what I do. If you feel the need to do differently then do so.

It doesn't get any clearer than that, IMO. And in passing we even discussed the nf & ncaa rules regarding this sitch. Some of us believe the wording is loose enough to permit this. You disagreeing does not make the words any clearer.

[BillyMac]

Basketball Forum Members:

I appreciate all the lively discussion regarding the coach calling a time out from the bench, a rule change that occurred several years ago. Can we please get back to a discussion about officials being asked more and more to become "fashion police", as directed by the NFHS in rule changes for the upcoming season?

[Rich]

Originally Posted by BillyMac

Basketball Forum Members:

I appreciate all the lively discussion regarding the coach calling a time out from the bench, a rule change that occurred several years ago. Can we please get back to a discussion about officials being asked more and more to become "fashion police", as directed by the NFHS in rule changes for the upcoming season?

Nope. I find that much more boring than the current discussion. Sorry.

[BktBallRef]

Has it occurred to you that we aren't as concerned as you are with what you term the "fashion police rule?

If you don't like the rule, ignore it.

[Raymond]

Originally Posted by BillyMac

Basketball Forum Members:

I appreciate all the lively discussion regarding the coach calling a time out from the bench, a rule change that occurred several years ago. Can we please get back to a discussion about officials being asked more and more to become "fashion police", as directed by the NFHS in rule changes for the upcoming season?

Hey BillyMac, you could always delete your original post. That would end the discussion real quick-like.

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by BillyMac

Basketball Forum Members:

I appreciate all the lively discussion regarding the coach calling a time out from the bench, a rule change that occurred several years ago. Can we please get back to a discussion about officials being asked more and more to become "fashion police", as directed by the NFHS in rule changes for the upcoming season?

Why did you start the post talking about all the rules changes? You should have started a thread only about the fashion issue.

Peace