T.V comments Ms.vs.ILL

[refjef40]

I was watching Mich.St vs. ILL. without caring who won when Dick Enberg and Clark Kellogg made me want to scream.First they reran a split second last second three pointer about ten times in slo-mo from the end of the first half throughout the second half.They kept showing it talking about the officials blowing the call insinuating the officials were deciding the game for M.S.The call was so close in fast time you could get a different call everytime from different refs.Then they had a perfect example of a O. player running over a D. just after he made a shot.D had position and the official came right out pointing the other way.Clark and Dick admitted by rule it was a offensive foul but should have been let it go because the defender was too far under the basket.They stated the N.B.A. circle is better rule so the official should have let this one go!This was a big call at the end so I give credit to that official for making that correct call on the road.

[JRutledge]

These officials work in the Big Ten. They work everywhere in the Big Ten as far as I know. Why would they be worried about a call they make "on the road?"

I really think the comments of the commentators are typcial and not a surprise. Again, these guys are former players (probably never read more than a page in the rulebook) and a play-by-play guy that never played past HS, if played HS at all. I would not expect intellegent comments from these individuals as it relates to the rules or officiating. I always wonder why as officials we do not just realize that reality. If you cannot expect that much from a coach during an actual game, then why would you expect that from people that do not deal with the current rules on an everyday way as officials, coaches and players do or should?

Peace

[refjef40]

I never meant to imply they were worried I was just complimenting them on a job well done.Also I don't expect these guys to know the rules it just would be nice if they didn't spend so much time wasting time in areas they don't know.

[rainmaker]

RefJef40--

I watched the game, too, and I agree with you. I thought that offensive call was very solid. It was also obvious that the end-of-the-half three-point shot could have gone either way. Did it make a difference in the game? Clark and Enberg said so. But haven't they learned by now that one call one way or the other, especially in the first half, doesn't make or break a game. What about all the bad passes, missed shots and poor defense? For Pete's sake, How come they're not running down Cook on national TV, for his stupid fouls, and a very ill-considered attempt at a three near the end? It's enough to make a ref wanna screammm....

[RecRef]

Another one from the game.

I am not 100 percent sure on this because both Endberg and Kellogg were talking at the same time. Late in the game an Illinois player makes a 3 try and sinks it but the L waves it off. Before the shot got off he had blown the play dead because the MS center had pushed an Illinois player about 3feet across the floor to clear the lane for a rebound.

During the replay Kellogg said something that sounded like; “The referees have to stop calling fouls away from the ball in situations like this.”

[mick]

Fun game.
The defender moved under Ballinger's 5th foul.
It happens.

Go Spartans !

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally posted by refjef40
Then they had a perfect example of a O. player running over a D. just after he made a shot.D had position and the official came right out pointing the other way.Clark and Dick admitted by rule it was a offensive foul but should have been let it go because the defender was too far under the basket.They stated the N.B.A. circle is better rule so the official should have let this one go!This was a big call at the end so I give credit to that official for making that correct call on the road.

Was the call correct by NCAA rules? It looked like the ball was out of the shooter's hands before he banged into the defender,but the ball hadn't gone through or missed.Isn't this a charge instead of a player control foul-and you shoot 1/1 at the other end? Anybody familiar with what the correct rule is now in NCAA?

[mick]

Originally posted by Jurassic Referee

Was the call correct by NCAA rules? It looked like the ball was out of the shooter's hands before he banged into the defender,but the ball hadn't gone through or missed.Isn't this a charge instead of a player control foul-and you shoot 1/1 at the other end? Anybody familiar with what the correct rule is now in NCAA?

I dunno if Ballinger got a foot on the floor before he hit the defender. I agree the ball was away, so the defender has to give hiom a place to land, and I dunno if he did allow that.

[rainmaker]

Originally posted by mick
I dunno if Ballinger got a foot on the floor before he hit the defender. I agree the ball was away, so the defender has to give hiom a place to land, and I dunno if he did allow that.

From the replay, I thought he was there in time. As to a PC vs a charge, I'm not sure, but it seemed certain to me that it was offensive.

[mick]

Originally posted by rainmaker

From the replay, I thought he was there in time. As to a PC vs a charge, I'm not sure, but it seemed certain to me that it was offensive.

I saw Ballinger off the ground and elevating as the defender took another 1/2 step to the defender's left.
(Please note, this is not to say that I saw correctly. It is only what I saw.)

[just another ref]

Originally posted by mick

(Please note, this is not to say that I saw correctly. It is only what I saw.) [/B]

I use this explanation a lot, followed by, if necessary, because I have a whistle and you don't.

[stan-MI]

Originally posted by JRutledge
[B]These officials work in the Big Ten. They work everywhere in the Big Ten as far as I know. Why would they be worried about a call they make "on the road?"

Actually, Rut, if you have watched the Big Ten (and other leagues, I imagine) over the years, you'd know that there have been refs who were afraid to make a tough call against the home team. And the willingness to make that tough call is what separates the best from the rest.

[JRutledge]

Originally posted by stan-MI


Actually, Rut, if you have watched the Big Ten (and other leagues, I imagine) over the years, you'd know that there have been refs who were afraid to make a tough call against the home team. And the willingness to make that tough call is what separates the best from the rest.

Stan I have been around the Big Ten all my life. I was born in the Michigan and grew up in Illinois. Never seen this "home call" as you claim. Especially when an official at that level are hired by the Conference, not by the "home school." They are evaluated by the Conference, not the "home school." They get hired and fired by the Conference, not the "home school." So why would an official be scared of the consequences of making the "home school" upset? I guess you seem to forget what happen in Cleveland in the past two years. Seems to me that the NFL officials were not concerned about the Cleveland fans with the Rudd situation this year and the "Instant Replay" situation against Jacksonville. I realize that this is the NFL, but I think the same things apply. You are not going to be a good official at that level being concerned about what the "fans" think.

Peace

[A Pennsylvania Coach]

Originally posted by refjef40
I was watching Mich.St vs. ILL. without caring who won when Dick Enberg and Clark Kellogg made me want to scream.First they reran a split second last second three pointer about ten times in slo-mo from the end of the first half throughout the second half.They kept showing it talking about the officials blowing the call insinuating the officials were deciding the game for M.S.The call was so close in fast time you could get a different call everytime from different refs.Then they had a perfect example of a O. player running over a D. just after he made a shot.D had position and the official came right out pointing the other way.Clark and Dick admitted by rule it was a offensive foul but should have been let it go because the defender was too far under the basket.They stated the N.B.A. circle is better rule so the official should have let this one go!This was a big call at the end so I give credit to that official for making that correct call on the road.

I know it's open season on announcers here but let's be fair. Kellogg admitted it was a good call. He said he like to see the rule changed (use the semicircle) but that the way the rule is written it was a good call. Enberg wanted the official to ignore the rule, but Kellogg didn't, he just put his opinion out there that he doesn't like it.

[Edited by A Pennsylvania Coach on Feb 3rd, 2003 at 09:18 AM]

[ChuckElias]

Originally posted by Jurassic Referee
It looked like the ball was out of the shooter's hands before he banged into the defender,but the ball hadn't gone through or missed.Isn't this a charge instead of a player control foul-and you shoot 1/1 at the other end? Anybody familiar with what the correct rule is now in NCAA?

JR, I didn't see the play in question, so I have no idea if the ball was released or not. But by rule, if the ball is released on a try (a pass would be different) before the contact, then the basket counts if it goes in the basket; regardless of whether the foul is on the shooter or the defender. No team control during a try, so no team control foul. So if it's on the shooter and the offensive team is over the limit, the defender would indeed get to shoot the bonus.

Chuck