The Official Forum  

Go Back   The Official Forum > Basketball
Register FAQ Community Calendar Today's Posts Search

Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Rate Thread Display Modes
  #1 (permalink)  
Old Wed May 11, 2005, 08:25am
Do not give a damn!!
 
Join Date: Jun 2000
Location: On the border
Posts: 30,472
Lightbulb

JERSEYS/PANTS/SKIRTS PROHIBITED FROM BEING REMOVED (3-4-15, 10-3-7h, 10-4-1i): A team member is prohibited from removing his/her jersey and/or pants/skirt within the confines of the playing area. The penalty is a technical foul. The former uniform rule didn’t require team members to actually wear the team uniform. This addition also addresses a growing behavioral concern of players removing their jerseys to demonstrate frustration or anger and as a means of attracting individual attention. The rule is intended to be applied in all situations – even when a player must change uniforms due to blood or other unusual circumstances. It is not unreasonable to expect team members to go to their locker rooms to change their jerseys.

THROW-IN AWARDED TO OPPONENT FOR ALL TEAM-CONTROL FOULS (7-5-5, 4-19-7): A new definition for a team-control foul has been established, and the penalty has been changed to a throw-in in all cases. The ball will be awarded to the offended team at a spot nearest to where the foul occurred. Bonus free throws will no longer be awarded. The change makes enforcement of the rule easier for officials. Under the previous rule it was sometimes difficult to determine whether: (a) a player in control had released the ball on a pass or interrupted dribble before the player charges; and (b) a player had received a pass before the player charges. The change makes the penalty consistent for a player-control foul and a team-control foul. In addition, the change reduces delays in the game. The rule only applies when a foul occurs by the team in control. By rule, there is no team control during a throw-in, jump ball or when the ball is in flight during a try or tap for goal.

PENALTY FOR DOUBLE FOULS CHANGED TO POINT OF INTERRUPTION (7-5-9, 4-36): The penalty for double personal, double technical and simultaneous fouls has been changed from an alternating-possession throw-in to resuming play from the point of interruption. A new definition of “point of interruption” has also been added to the rules book. If the point of interruption cannot be determined e.g., unsuccessful try in flight, the alternating-possession arrow will be used. The committee felt that no team should benefit from a double foul. Under the previous rule, if the alternating-possession arrow favored the defense, the defense would be awarded the ball, benefiting from the foul act. It is hoped that the change will increase the likelihood of double fouls being called when warranted.

LEAVING COURT FOR UNAUTHORIZED REASON CHANGED TO VIOLATION (9-3-2): The rule for leaving the court for an unauthorized reason has been changed from a technical foul to a violation. Leaving the court during the course of play has been increasing with the former penalty of a technical foul not being assessed. Typically, this play is seen when an offensive player goes around a low screen, runs outside the end line and returns on the other side of the court free of their defender. The violation will be called as soon as the player leaves the court. The committee hopes that changing the penalty will increase the likelihood of the infraction being called and eliminate this tremendous advantage.

2005 Basketball Comments


Peace
__________________
Let us get into "Good Trouble."
-----------------------------------------------------------
Charles Michael “Mick” Chambers (1947-2010)
Reply With Quote
  #2 (permalink)  
Old Wed May 11, 2005, 08:28am
Do not give a damn!!
 
Join Date: Jun 2000
Location: On the border
Posts: 30,472
I was completely correct about the jersey rule. I knew that they were going to expect players to go to the locker room to change their jersey even in situations with blood.

Peace
__________________
Let us get into "Good Trouble."
-----------------------------------------------------------
Charles Michael “Mick” Chambers (1947-2010)
Reply With Quote
  #3 (permalink)  
Old Wed May 11, 2005, 10:26am
M.A.S.H.
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Texas
Posts: 5,030
Quote:
Originally posted by JRutledge
LEAVING COURT FOR UNAUTHORIZED REASON CHANGED TO VIOLATION (9-3-2):The committee hopes that changing the penalty will increase the likelihood of the infraction being called and eliminate this tremendous advantage.


Peace
I saw this one coming last year at the rules interp. As already talked about, there remains the question about the defense, but I'm sure it will get answered.
Reply With Quote
  #4 (permalink)  
Old Thu May 12, 2005, 07:57am
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Houston
Posts: 572
I read the rule about changing a bloody shirt means a trip to the locker room. Let's say, Boy's freshman game. 1 coach. Player gets blood on jersey. 'Coach, take your player to the locker room, and we'll wait till you get back."? Or, let the player go to the locker room unattended??? I understand the rule, just administering it could be an issue. On one hand, we don't allow player's after they are disqualified to leave the bench area, or POE last year, to leave the bench to go get a drink of water, but this year, we send them to the locker room. It just seems inconsistent to me.

I think most of the officials in here have the presence of mind to recognize a shirt coming off in disagreement with a call, as opposed to a shirt coming off because there is blood on it.
Reply With Quote
  #5 (permalink)  
Old Thu May 12, 2005, 11:41am
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Posts: 270
Quote:
Originally posted by tjones1
Quote:
Originally posted by JRutledge
LEAVING COURT FOR UNAUTHORIZED REASON CHANGED TO VIOLATION (9-3-2):The committee hopes that changing the penalty will increase the likelihood of the infraction being called and eliminate this tremendous advantage.


Peace
I saw this one coming last year at the rules interp. As already talked about, there remains the question about the defense, but I'm sure it will get answered.
A defender violates when leaving the court for an unauthorized reason, e.g.; A1 sets a screen along the endline for A2, then B1 runs around A1, going out of bounds while covering A2... Signal a violation B1.

A defender, B1 tries to establish LGP along the sideline, attempting to induce a charge call on A1, places one foot on the court and the other out of bounds... Signal a violation B1. Others may disagree that B1 left the confines of the court by placing one foot out of bounds, yet will it apply only with both feet clearly out of bounds?

But if a player accidentally leaves the court through no fault of their own, I wouldnÂ’t penalize the player with a violation.
Reply With Quote
  #6 (permalink)  
Old Thu May 12, 2005, 12:02pm
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: Pflugerville, TX
Posts: 293
Send a message via Yahoo to SeanFitzRef
Quote:
A defender, B1 tries to establish LGP along the sideline, attempting to induce a charge call on A1, places one foot on the court and the other out of bounds... Signal a violation B1. Others may disagree that B1 left the confines of the court by placing one foot out of bounds, yet will it apply only with both feet clearly out of bounds?
If one player is holding the ball, and steps out-of-bounds, it is a violation and the ball goes the other way. If that is true, how can you establish legal guarding position with one foot out-of-bounds. Anything outside of the lines is considered "off the legal playing surface", so even if it is one foot, IMO it should be a violation.
__________________
Nature gave men two ends - one to sit on and one to think with. Ever since then man's success or failure has been dependent on the one he used most.
-- George R. Kirkpatrick
Reply With Quote
  #7 (permalink)  
Old Thu May 12, 2005, 12:24pm
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2000
Posts: 14,616
Let's use a little common sense here. What's the purpose of calling a violation on the defense for stepping OOB? It's nothing more than a game interrupter. "Well, let me see. Let me call this and give the ball right back to the offense."

It makes no sense and I bet the NFHS clarifes this to say so.
Reply With Quote
  #8 (permalink)  
Old Thu May 12, 2005, 12:25pm
M.A.S.H.
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Texas
Posts: 5,030
Quote:
Originally posted by johnny1784
Quote:
Originally posted by tjones1
Quote:
Originally posted by JRutledge
LEAVING COURT FOR UNAUTHORIZED REASON CHANGED TO VIOLATION (9-3-2):The committee hopes that changing the penalty will increase the likelihood of the infraction being called and eliminate this tremendous advantage.


Peace
I saw this one coming last year at the rules interp. As already talked about, there remains the question about the defense, but I'm sure it will get answered.
A defender violates when leaving the court for an unauthorized reason, e.g.; A1 sets a screen along the endline for A2, then B1 runs around A1, going out of bounds while covering A2... Signal a violation B1.

A defender, B1 tries to establish LGP along the sideline, attempting to induce a charge call on A1, places one foot on the court and the other out of bounds... Signal a violation B1. Others may disagree that B1 left the confines of the court by placing one foot out of bounds, yet will it apply only with both feet clearly out of bounds?

But if a player accidentally leaves the court through no fault of their own, I wouldnÂ’t penalize the player with a violation.
The whole reasoning behind the defender is what good is a violation going to do whenever the other team has the ball already.

I disagree about the violation on B1 when trying to establish LGP. IMO, it is not a violation, by rule it's a foul -- block.
Reply With Quote
  #9 (permalink)  
Old Thu May 12, 2005, 01:47pm
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Houston
Posts: 572
bballrob,

I'm still looking for help on how to administer with a team with only one coach. Do we stop the game, so the coach can accompany the player back to the locker room to change? You shouldn't let the player leave the bench by him/her self. Single coach games are not that all uncommon at small schools, or when a team is on the road.

I hope the committee takes another look at this.
Reply With Quote
  #10 (permalink)  
Old Thu May 12, 2005, 02:21pm
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Posts: 270
Quote:
Originally posted by tjones1
Quote:
Originally posted by johnny1784
Quote:
Originally posted by tjones1
Quote:
Originally posted by JRutledge
LEAVING COURT FOR UNAUTHORIZED REASON CHANGED TO VIOLATION (9-3-2):The committee hopes that changing the penalty will increase the likelihood of the infraction being called and eliminate this tremendous advantage.


Peace
I saw this one coming last year at the rules interp. As already talked about, there remains the question about the defense, but I'm sure it will get answered.
A defender violates when leaving the court for an unauthorized reason, e.g.; A1 sets a screen along the endline for A2, then B1 runs around A1, going out of bounds while covering A2... Signal a violation B1.

A defender, B1 tries to establish LGP along the sideline, attempting to induce a charge call on A1, places one foot on the court and the other out of bounds... Signal a violation B1. Others may disagree that B1 left the confines of the court by placing one foot out of bounds, yet will it apply only with both feet clearly out of bounds?

But if a player accidentally leaves the court through no fault of their own, I wouldnÂ’t penalize the player with a violation.
The whole reasoning behind the defender is what good is a violation going to do whenever the other team has the ball already.

I disagree about the violation on B1 when trying to establish LGP. IMO, it is not a violation, by rule it's a foul -- block.
Good point. The old rule would issue a T to any player who left the court for unauthorized reasons. I was trying to show an example on how it would apply on a defender but I wrote B1 tried to establish LGP having one foot out of bounds. The new rule should prevent all players from playing outside of court boundary lines without issuing a T.
Right?
Reply With Quote
  #11 (permalink)  
Old Thu May 12, 2005, 02:37pm
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2001
Posts: 555
Send a message via ICQ to bigwhistle
Quote:
Originally posted by bballrob
Quote:
Originally posted by FrankHtown
bballrob,

I'm still looking for help on how to administer with a team with only one coach. Do we stop the game, so the coach can accompany the player back to the locker room to change? You shouldn't let the player leave the bench by him/her self. Single coach games are not that all uncommon at small schools, or when a team is on the road.

I hope the committee takes another look at this.
Where in the rulebook does it say that you can't send the kid to the lockerroom by himself to change his shirt?
It may or may not be in the rulebook, but if you allow the minor to go unsupervised to the locker room, you are opening yourself up to possible legal ramifications if little Johnny or Suzie manages to hurt themselves while on their own. Frank has a valid point. Parents nowadays are looking to sue anyone and everyone they can, and a minor being unsupervised could leave the official in a bad situation, even though the official did not direct the player to leave the bench area.

Even if found not at fault, the process which the official would have to go through in order to maintain his/her lack of guilt would be very stressful, expensive, and time-consuming.
Reply With Quote
  #12 (permalink)  
Old Thu May 12, 2005, 07:54pm
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Aug 1999
Posts: 1,281
If we are going to change definitions, at least we could change the definition of team control to include throw-in.

Go figure...

The team has the ball in its possession...Can call time out(the other team cant)... If there is a foul on the inbounds play then we shoot 1+1 instead of the turnover. I think this is one that would be more consistent with the intent of the rule.
Reply With Quote
  #13 (permalink)  
Old Thu May 12, 2005, 08:05pm
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Kaukauna, WI
Posts: 832
Quote:
Originally posted by bballrob
Quote:
Originally posted by bigwhistle
Quote:
Originally posted by bballrob
Quote:
Originally posted by FrankHtown
bballrob,

I'm still looking for help on how to administer with a team with only one coach. Do we stop the game, so the coach can accompany the player back to the locker room to change? You shouldn't let the player leave the bench by him/her self. Single coach games are not that all uncommon at small schools, or when a team is on the road.

I hope the committee takes another look at this.
Where in the rulebook does it say that you can't send the kid to the lockerroom by himself to change his shirt?
It may or may not be in the rulebook, but if you allow the minor to go unsupervised to the locker room, you are opening yourself up to possible legal ramifications if little Johnny or Suzie manages to hurt themselves while on their own. Frank has a valid point. Parents nowadays are looking to sue anyone and everyone they can, and a minor being unsupervised could leave the official in a bad situation, even though the official did not direct the player to leave the bench area.

Even if found not at fault, the process which the official would have to go through in order to maintain his/her lack of guilt would be very stressful, expensive, and time-consuming.
Bottom line, it's really not our problem how the kid makes it to the locker room. Hell, I'm guessing that little johnny has a parent or someone that can accompany him to the lockerroom. No need for the coach to take him in if you want an adult to take him in. Coach should know the rules, and he needs to figure out how best to deal with it within the guidelines of the rules.
Agree. It sounds like the coach's problem to me. Grab a parent or somebody else handy. If they can't find a second adult to assist with such matters, that's not the ref's concern.
__________________
Quitters never win, winners never quit, but those who never win AND never quit are idiots.
Reply With Quote
  #14 (permalink)  
Old Thu May 12, 2005, 08:17pm
Aleve Titles to Others
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: East Westchester of the Southern Conference
Posts: 5,381
Send a message via AIM to 26 Year Gap
Coaches send kids to the locker room alone frequently. Have you never had a pre-game situation with a player wearing a white tee shirt under a dark jersey or vice versa?
__________________
Never hit a piñata if you see hornets flying out of it.
Reply With Quote
  #15 (permalink)  
Old Thu May 12, 2005, 08:21pm
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2000
Posts: 14,616
There's nothing you can do if a coach wants to send a player to the locker room for any reason or if he let's him/her go to the lobby for some water.
Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks


Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 04:33pm.



Search Engine Friendly URLs by vBSEO 3.3.0 RC1