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Old Sat May 06, 2006, 10:05pm
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order of calling fouls and other questions

Questions pertain to High school rules

Question1: If team a is followed and then immidiately after the whistle is blown team B's coach recieves a techincal foul. Are the fouls shot in the order they were called or is the technical shot first.

Question 2. If a players number is recorded in the score book and the player allowed to enter the game at anytime without a penalty to that team?

Questions 3" when a flagrant call is called on a player is this consiedered an automatic techical foul as well?
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Old Sat May 06, 2006, 10:21pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bradwxyz
Question1: If team a is followed and then immidiately after the whistle is blown team B's coach recieves a techincal foul. Are the fouls shot in the order they were called or is the technical shot first.
I am assuming you meant "fouled."

Yes, they would all be in the order they took place. You shoot the FTs for the foul (if necessary) and then the T. Also the team that was shooting the T FTs will get the ball back.

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Question 2. If a players number is recorded in the score book and the player allowed to enter the game at anytime without a penalty to that team?
I am not sure I understand you question. Why would a player not be allowed to enter a game if they are eligible to play or listed in the book? Do you have an example of what you might be asking?

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Questions 3" when a flagrant call is called on a player is this consiedered an automatic techical foul as well?
A flagrant foul is a foul that requires an ejection. A flagrant foul is not necessarily a T. You can have a flagrant T, but you can have a regular flagrant foul. All flagrant really means a foul that requires immediate ejection.

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Old Sat May 06, 2006, 10:32pm
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player entering game...

IN my previous queston, I will explain what happened. A Players was recorded in the official scorebook. He did not show up for the game until the beginning of the 2nd half. The coach on the other team said that since he showed up late he is allowed to play but the team is chareged a technical foul as a result of him showing up late. is this correct.

Also could some one explain the difference between an intentional, flagragrant and technical flagrant and the penalities for each. I am a little confused on this.

Thanks so much.
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Old Sat May 06, 2006, 11:07pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bradwxyz
IN my previous queston, I will explain what happened. A Players was recorded in the official scorebook. He did not show up for the game until the beginning of the 2nd half. The coach on the other team said that since he showed up late he is allowed to play but the team is chareged a technical foul as a result of him showing up late. is this correct.

Also could some one explain the difference between an intentional, flagragrant and technical flagrant and the penalities for each. I am a little confused on this.

Thanks so much.
If he's in the book, he can come in at any time without penalty. The other coach was either wrong or lobbying for some free shots. The rule book only mentions the score book, we can't know when a player arrived at the game (he could have been taking extra time taping his ankle in the locker room for all we know.)

Intentional foul: A foul against a player where the guilty party is not making any sort of legitimate basketball play on the ball. Examples: Pushing a shooter from behind in the back without even pretending to slap at the ball; or grabbing a player by the jersey to prevent him from taking advantage of his better positioning. This is a judgment call, and also can be applied to an overly hard foul where the player was trying to get the ball. Penalty is two shots and the ball out of bounds at the spot nearest the foul.

Technical foul: A dead ball contact foul, or an unsportsmanlike conduct foul. Penalty, two shots and the ball at midcourt.

Flagrant foul: Can be either personal or technical. "Flagrant" is simply a qualifying term meaning that the player is automatically ejected immediately.
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Old Sat May 06, 2006, 11:08pm
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Quote:
The coach on the other team said that since he showed up late he is allowed to play but the team is chareged a technical foul as a result of him showing up late. is this correct.
If NFHS rules were being used, then the player can enter the game without penalty. A technical would only apply if the player's name had not been registered in the book before the game. In many independent leagues a technical will be issued for a player who shows up late - that is up to the league organizers.
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the difference between an intentional, flagragrant and technical flagrant and the penalities for each
If I get something wrong here someone will be along to correct me!
intentional foul: a foul which neutralizes an opponent's obvious advantageous position... think of this as usually being a foul that is not a play on the ball - for instance, player B1 has a breakaway layup and player A1 dives and successfully trips B1. For an intentional foul, the penalty is two shots and the ball - this will look very much like a technical foul except that the shooter has to be the player who was fouled (B1 in this case)
technical foul: can be any number of things - administrative (name was not in the book, player wore the wrong number, etc.) to personal conduct. For all technical fouls the penalty is two shoots by any player and the ball. A player is not ejected on technical fouls until he/she receives two. Each technical foul also adds one foul to the total count [five] required for a player disqualification.
flagrant foul: this is given for severe personal conduct (could be verbal, physical, etc.) - similar to a technical foul except that the player is ejected. For all flagrant fouls the penalty is two shoots by any player and the ball.
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Old Sat May 06, 2006, 11:08pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bradwxyz
IN my previous queston, I will explain what happened. A Players was recorded in the official scorebook. He did not show up for the game until the beginning of the 2nd half. The coach on the other team said that since he showed up late he is allowed to play but the team is chareged a technical foul as a result of him showing up late. is this correct.
If the player is in the book, the player can play. If the player is not in the book, the player can still play unless there are specific rules with a league or state that says they cannot play. There are no rules I have ever come across that says anything about when a player is "present" to play.

Quote:
Also could some one explain the difference between an intentional, flagragrant and technical flagrant and the penalities for each. I am a little confused on this.

Thanks so much.
One foul is intentional, the other is a technical. Both fouls require an ejection.

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Old Sun May 07, 2006, 06:13am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jkjenning
For all flagrant fouls the penalty is two shoots by any player and the ball.
This is not a true statement, but the rest of your post looks fine.

Only Flagrant Technical fouls follow your statement, for Flagrant Personal fouls the offended player must shoot the FTs unless he is injured.
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Old Sun May 07, 2006, 08:29am
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Thanks Nevadaref!!
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Old Sun May 07, 2006, 09:27am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JRutledge
One foul is intentional, the other is a technical. Both fouls require an ejection.
I'm not understanding this, quite possibly b/c the original post was a little confusing. But an intentional foul doesn't require an ejection. I know that you know that, so what were you really saying? Obviously, I'm missing your real point.
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Old Sun May 07, 2006, 11:10am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ChuckElias
I'm not understanding this, quite possibly b/c the original post was a little confusing. But an intentional foul doesn't require an ejection. I know that you know that, so what were you really saying? Obviously, I'm missing your real point.
If both types of fouls are flagrant you are required to have an ejection. He was not asking about a regular intentional foul or regular technical foul. He was asking what the difference between an intentional flagrant and technical flagrant foul.

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Old Sun May 07, 2006, 11:22am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JRutledge
He was asking what the difference between an intentional flagrant and technical flagrant foul.
Well, that's easy. The difference is there's no such thing as an intentional flagrant foul.

You can have an intentional personal foul or intentional technical foul.

You can have an flagrant personal foul or a flagrant technical foul.

You cannot have an intentional flagrant foul (regardless of whether it's personal or technical).
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Old Sun May 07, 2006, 11:30am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ChuckElias
Well, that's easy. The difference is there's no such thing as an intentional flagrant foul.

You can have an intentional personal foul or intentional technical foul.

You can have an flagrant personal foul or a flagrant technical foul.

You cannot have an intentional flagrant foul (regardless of whether it's personal or technical).
That all sounds great. The point is if you have a flagrant foul you are ejecting someone. Whether you call it a technical, intentional or anything, you have to eject someone. I have only called one flagrant foul in my entire career and I did not worry what the actual definition of that foul. To me this is more of a test issue than how you apply the rule.

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Old Sun May 07, 2006, 01:11pm
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What if it is a intentional flagrant double dribble?

The point is that you have to decide intential or flagrant. An "intentional flagrant" foul is contratictory; one requires ejection the the other does not. If a coach that knows the rules hears you say intentional, he's wonder why you're now telling him to remove the player...and he'll have a good point.
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Old Sun May 07, 2006, 02:17pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Camron Rust
What if it is a intentional flagrant double dribble?

The point is that you have to decide intential or flagrant. An "intentional flagrant" foul is contratictory; one requires ejection the the other does not. If a coach that knows the rules hears you say intentional, he's wonder why you're now telling him to remove the player...and he'll have a good point.
When have you meet a coach that knows the difference? If they know the rules that well, they know what flagrant means. It is not about the language, it is about what you called and what you are going to do after the foul.

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Old Sun May 07, 2006, 03:43pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JRutledge
The point is if you have a flagrant foul you are ejecting someone. Whether you call it a technical, intentional or anything, you have to eject someone.
Well, that all sounds great, too. So then, I guess it's all right with you if refs start using the phrase "over the back foul". Because whether you call it a "push" or "over the back", you have to call the foul. Right? Since it doesn't matter what we call things now.
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