order of calling fouls and other questions

[bradwxyz]

Questions pertain to High school rules

Question1: If team a is followed and then immidiately after the whistle is blown team B's coach recieves a techincal foul. Are the fouls shot in the order they were called or is the technical shot first.

Question 2. If a players number is recorded in the score book and the player allowed to enter the game at anytime without a penalty to that team?

Questions 3" when a flagrant call is called on a player is this consiedered an automatic techical foul as well?

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by bradwxyz

Question1: If team a is followed and then immidiately after the whistle is blown team B's coach recieves a techincal foul. Are the fouls shot in the order they were called or is the technical shot first.

I am assuming you meant "fouled."

Yes, they would all be in the order they took place. You shoot the FTs for the foul (if necessary) and then the T. Also the team that was shooting the T FTs will get the ball back.

Question 2. If a players number is recorded in the score book and the player allowed to enter the game at anytime without a penalty to that team?

I am not sure I understand you question. Why would a player not be allowed to enter a game if they are eligible to play or listed in the book? Do you have an example of what you might be asking?

Questions 3" when a flagrant call is called on a player is this consiedered an automatic techical foul as well?

A flagrant foul is a foul that requires an ejection. A flagrant foul is not necessarily a T. You can have a flagrant T, but you can have a regular flagrant foul. All flagrant really means a foul that requires immediate ejection.

Peace

[bradwxyz]

IN my previous queston, I will explain what happened. A Players was recorded in the official scorebook. He did not show up for the game until the beginning of the 2nd half. The coach on the other team said that since he showed up late he is allowed to play but the team is chareged a technical foul as a result of him showing up late. is this correct.

Also could some one explain the difference between an intentional, flagragrant and technical flagrant and the penalities for each. I am a little confused on this.

Thanks so much.

[Adam]

Originally Posted by bradwxyz

IN my previous queston, I will explain what happened. A Players was recorded in the official scorebook. He did not show up for the game until the beginning of the 2nd half. The coach on the other team said that since he showed up late he is allowed to play but the team is chareged a technical foul as a result of him showing up late. is this correct.

Also could some one explain the difference between an intentional, flagragrant and technical flagrant and the penalities for each. I am a little confused on this.

Thanks so much.

If he's in the book, he can come in at any time without penalty. The other coach was either wrong or lobbying for some free shots. The rule book only mentions the score book, we can't know when a player arrived at the game (he could have been taking extra time taping his ankle in the locker room for all we know.)

Intentional foul: A foul against a player where the guilty party is not making any sort of legitimate basketball play on the ball. Examples: Pushing a shooter from behind in the back without even pretending to slap at the ball; or grabbing a player by the jersey to prevent him from taking advantage of his better positioning. This is a judgment call, and also can be applied to an overly hard foul where the player was trying to get the ball. Penalty is two shots and the ball out of bounds at the spot nearest the foul.

Technical foul: A dead ball contact foul, or an unsportsmanlike conduct foul. Penalty, two shots and the ball at midcourt.

Flagrant foul: Can be either personal or technical. "Flagrant" is simply a qualifying term meaning that the player is automatically ejected immediately.

[jkjenning]

The coach on the other team said that since he showed up late he is allowed to play but the team is chareged a technical foul as a result of him showing up late. is this correct.

If NFHS rules were being used, then the player can enter the game without penalty. A technical would only apply if the player's name had not been registered in the book before the game. In many independent leagues a technical will be issued for a player who shows up late - that is up to the league organizers.

the difference between an intentional, flagragrant and technical flagrant and the penalities for each

If I get something wrong here someone will be along to correct me!
intentional foul: a foul which neutralizes an opponent's obvious advantageous position... think of this as usually being a foul that is not a play on the ball - for instance, player B1 has a breakaway layup and player A1 dives and successfully trips B1. For an intentional foul, the penalty is two shots and the ball - this will look very much like a technical foul except that the shooter has to be the player who was fouled (B1 in this case)
technical foul: can be any number of things - administrative (name was not in the book, player wore the wrong number, etc.) to personal conduct. For all technical fouls the penalty is two shoots by any player and the ball. A player is not ejected on technical fouls until he/she receives two. Each technical foul also adds one foul to the total count [five] required for a player disqualification.
flagrant foul: this is given for severe personal conduct (could be verbal, physical, etc.) - similar to a technical foul except that the player is ejected. For all flagrant fouls the penalty is two shoots by any player and the ball.

[Nevadaref]

Originally Posted by jkjenning

For all flagrant fouls the penalty is two shoots by any player and the ball.

This is not a true statement, but the rest of your post looks fine.

Only Flagrant Technical fouls follow your statement, for Flagrant Personal fouls the offended player must shoot the FTs unless he is injured.

[jkjenning]

Thanks Nevadaref!!

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by bradwxyz

IN my previous queston, I will explain what happened. A Players was recorded in the official scorebook. He did not show up for the game until the beginning of the 2nd half. The coach on the other team said that since he showed up late he is allowed to play but the team is chareged a technical foul as a result of him showing up late. is this correct.

If the player is in the book, the player can play. If the player is not in the book, the player can still play unless there are specific rules with a league or state that says they cannot play. There are no rules I have ever come across that says anything about when a player is "present" to play.

Also could some one explain the difference between an intentional, flagragrant and technical flagrant and the penalities for each. I am a little confused on this.

Thanks so much.

One foul is intentional, the other is a technical. Both fouls require an ejection.

Peace

[ChuckElias]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

One foul is intentional, the other is a technical. Both fouls require an ejection.

I'm not understanding this, quite possibly b/c the original post was a little confusing. But an intentional foul doesn't require an ejection. I know that you know that, so what were you really saying? Obviously, I'm missing your real point.

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by ChuckElias

I'm not understanding this, quite possibly b/c the original post was a little confusing. But an intentional foul doesn't require an ejection. I know that you know that, so what were you really saying? Obviously, I'm missing your real point.

If both types of fouls are flagrant you are required to have an ejection. He was not asking about a regular intentional foul or regular technical foul. He was asking what the difference between an intentional flagrant and technical flagrant foul.

Peace

[BillyMac]

Question 2. If a players number is recorded in the score book and the player allowed to enter the game at anytime without a penalty to that team?

IAABO Refresher Exam 2005

Question 73. Squad member #45 missed the bus and is not present at the time the squad list and starting lineup must be submitted for team members. During the pregame warmup, the referee counts eleven team members of team A but while checking the book team A has twelve team members listed. Referee informs the coach that the squad member who is not present may not be placed in the book even if he/she will get to the game late. Is the referee correct? Answer: Yes Rule Citation:Rule 3, Section 2, Article 1; Rule 4, Section 34, Article 4

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally Posted by BillyMac

Question 2. If a players number is recorded in the score book and the player allowed to enter the game at anytime without a penalty to that team?

IAABO Refresher Exam 2005

Question 73. Squad member #45 missed the bus and is not present at the time the squad list and starting lineup must be submitted for team members. During the pregame warmup, the referee counts eleven team members of team A but while checking the book team A has twelve team members listed. Referee informs the coach that the squad member who is not present may not be placed in the book even if he/she will get to the game late. Is the referee correct? Answer: Yes Rule Citation:Rule 3, Section 2, Article 1; Rule 4, Section 34, Article 4

IAABO rules answers and interepretions are NOT official NFHS citations in most of the country. They are their own interpretations, and IAABO has been wrong many times- including this one.

The referee above is NOT correct. THe IAABO answer above is completely wrong. Rule 3-2-1 simply lays out a team's requirements for handing in their roster. There is nothing anywhere in the rules saying that the players have to be physically present at this time.

Lah me......

[ChuckElias]

Originally Posted by BillyMac

IAABO Refresher Exam 2005

Question 73. Referee informs the coach that the squad member who is not present may not be placed in the book even if he/she will get to the game late. Is the referee correct? Answer: Yes Rule Citation:Rule 3, Section 2, Article 1; Rule 4, Section 34, Article 4

This was the subject of a VERY lengthy conversation on one of the IAABO Interpreter conference calls this past season. Honestly, I don't remember much of the discussion except for my utter confusion at why it was even an issue. I think Peter Webb's conclusion was that the refresher answer is incorrect. The concensus was that we would do it the way we've always done it, which is to put all the names in and if the kid shows up late, it's not a problem.

I don't see anything in 3-2-1 or 4-34 that excludes a person from being a team member just b/c he's not yet on the court during warm-ups. If anyone else has a strong opinion supporting the refresher answer, I'd like to hear it.

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally Posted by ChuckElias

This was the subject of a VERY lengthy conversation on one of the IAABO Interpreter conference calls this past season. Honestly, I don't remember much of the discussion except for my utter confusion at why it was even an issue. I think Peter Webb's conclusion was that the refresher answer is incorrect. The concensus was that we would do it the way we've always done it, which is to put all the names in and if the kid shows up late, it's not a problem.

I don't see anything in 3-2-1 or 4-34 that excludes a person from being a team member just b/c he's not yet on the court during warm-ups. If anyone else has a strong opinion supporting the refresher answer, I'd like to hear it.

I would hope that Peter Webb sent something out to all his constituents acknowledging the error.

Please note that Mr. Elias is the rules interpreter for his IAABO Board.

[ChuckElias]

Originally Posted by Jurassic Referee

Please note that Mr. Elias is the rules interpreter for his IAABO Board.

That, and $2.88, will get me a gallon of gas.