"Honey Bunny"

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally Posted by Corndog89

Therefore, IMO, it is incumbent we don't do or say anything that may offend anyone, even if we do it innocently.

Therefore, I do my best to avoid any terminology that may be construed as offensive and keep things as simple and straightforward as possible. Just good common sense.

And I liked what a couple other people said about officials setting the tenor of good sportsmanship, civility, and personal responsibility...we should and usually do.

One guy's opinions....

What about the players/coaches that might be offended by good sportsmanship, civility and personal responsibility? Aren't you worried about offending them also?

Btw, I personally find the term "guy" very offensive.

[Junker]

Originally Posted by Jurassic Referee

What about the players/coaches that might be offended by good sportsmanship, civility and personal responsibility? Aren't you worried about offending them also?

Btw, I personally find the term "guy" very offensive.

Me too! I'd prefer to be called "Stud" or "Stallion".

[Raymond]

Originally Posted by Corndog89

But the 85th responder may very well be the one who is genuinely offended by the term "ladies". And if so, then odds are that #85 will be be a player/coach/parent in my next game and bring me grief when I unwittingly use the term "ladies". When someone is zealous about something, even something so seemingly innocuous as the term "ladies", and you offend their sense of righteousness, then you will never regain your moral authority in their eyes, to include the authority to officiate their game.

If I come across #85 and they are a player or a coach in a game I officiate then I would apologize for offending them and move on. If after my apology their sense of righteousness is still offended beyond repair that's something I can't control. However my authority as an official in that particular game still stands.

I've been offended many a time by people in a positions of authority (retired after 22 years of Air Force service). The fact that someone says something offensive to my personal senses did not usurp that person's power or authority.

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally Posted by Junker

Me too! I'd prefer to be called "Stud" or "Stallion".

That's fine with me, Honey Bunny.

[Dan_ref]

Originally Posted by Junker

Me too! I'd prefer to be called "Stud" or "Stallion".

Originally Posted by Jurassic Referee

Thgat's fine with me, Honey Bunny.

Now now, calm down ladies, calm down.

[Junker]

Originally Posted by Dan_ref

Now now, calm down ladies, calm down.

I don't mind Honey Bunny as long as it comes from the right source. I'm sure JR is a handsome man, but he's not the right source for me.

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally Posted by Junker

I'm sure JR is a handsome man, but he's not the right source for me.

He called me a "man"!

Mummy, make the bad person of indiscriminate sex quit it.

[Mark T. DeNucci, Sr.]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

I have had this conversation with my Mom who is a PhD in Sociology (retiring after 30 years at one University in June) who attended the University of Michigan, University of Wisconsin at Madison (Masters Degree) and got her undergrad at FAMU (Newsweek called the best University in the country). She also for years has taught classes like “Gender Roles” and “The Black Family” and these issues are discussed an written about in much greater detail. Also as part of her job she has sat on the board of many organizations that are in her field that deal with Sociology and other teaching organizations that involved people from all over the country and at some of the most prestigious Universities in the country. This background has exposed me to attending lectures, conferences or just talking to people that have expertise in the role of Gender in America and how things have chanced with expectations, language, social roles and sexuality concerns over the last 50 to 60 years alone. This is not the first time I have ever had a conversation with someone about this issue or read about this and many issues of gender and social-economic status. This is why I gave the explanation in the first place.

Once again we are not going to resolve this issue on a discussion board or any forum like this. Just thought there needed to be some balance to this discussion as what why things are the way they are. I personally do not care either way what you say or how you say it to the people in your life. Just know that someone that you might not know might have issues with the term and this might be unexpected if put your head in the sand.

Peace

Rut:

With all due respect to your mother, saying that referring to a female, no matter what her age, as a lady is being derogatory to the female is policitally correct horse manure. Conducting oneself on the playing fields or in the work place as a gentleman or a lady has nothing to do with putting a person down, it has to do with displaying good sportsmanship and good manners, other words, acting like civilized human beings. Today's society at all levels, talk radio and politics, are good examples where good manners are sorely missing.

MTD, Sr.

[rockyroad]

Originally Posted by Mark T. DeNucci, Sr.

Rut:

With all due respect to your mother, saying that referring to a female, no matter what her age, as a lady is being derogatory to the female is policitally correct horse manure. Conducting oneself on the playing fields or in the work place as a gentleman or a lady has nothing to do with putting a person down, it has to do with displaying good sportsmanship and good manners, other words, acting like civilized human beings. Today's society at all levels, talk radio and politics, are good examples where good manners are sorely missing.

MTD, Sr.

We have a local dj oa Portland radio station morning show who calls every woman caller "Honey" or "darling"...they had one woman call in and complain that he was being sexist, so they did a 4 hour call-in one morning and had hundreds of women call in and the only one who complained about it was the original caller. Turns out she is a Professor at Oregon State University in the Gender Studies Program (whatever that is)...seems maybe those academia people are a little out of touch with reality...

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by Mark T. DeNucci, Sr.

Rut:

With all due respect to your mother, saying that referring to a female, no matter what her age, as a lady is being derogatory to the female is policitally correct horse manure.

This discussion is not about my mother or her opinion. The point I was making was to suggest that there are people that are have studied these things as their living (last time I checked I have not read anyone that studies in the field of Gender and or issues of race).

Originally Posted by Mark T. DeNucci, Sr.

Conducting oneself on the playing fields or in the work place as a gentleman or a lady has nothing to do with putting a person down, it has to do with displaying good sportsmanship and good manners, other words, acting like civilized human beings. Today's society at all levels, talk radio and politics, are good examples where good manners are sorely missing.

MTD, Sr.

I also did not just suggest that this was something that people are to be offended by; I said that this is something that suggests a role and a way of conduct based on the use of the word. Usually in the terms of calling a gender a "lady" or a "gentleman" on its own in the context of a basketball game would not be offensive to me personally or anyone I know. But the term is not just about a game.

I also find it funny that this issue cannot be raised, but when it deals with race or challenging other aspects of life (that have been discussed on this board), then that is out of line. Then raising this issue is all about "political correctness" and people just finding ways to be offended. I look at this situation like this. If this is horse manure, so is all the posts, claims and ways people here find ways to be offended. You PM'd me over something that offended you. Why is this situation OK Mark and the use of a term so out of line?

It makes me think that the composition and the background of the people who are not offended have something to do with how you view this issue. I live my life to try to not offend people and not be a stubborn *** to tell others they should not feel that way because I am not personally affected.

Peace

[Jimgolf]

According to my son, the correct word of address for all players, coaches, officials and spectators, regardless of any gender, ethnic or other considerations, is "yo".

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally Posted by Jimgolf

According to my son, the correct word of address for all players, coaches, officials and spectators, regardless of any gender, ethnic or other considerations, is "yo".

Tell your son that it's probably a good idea to say that only once when addressing an official. Any player that looks at me and says yo-yo is taking their chances.

[Back In The Saddle]

Originally Posted by Corndog89

As officials, we are authority figures. As such, our credibility, in large part, depends on treating everyone the same.

If you treat everybody the same, you're going to be a pretty ineffective referee. Some players you want to win to your side, because they can solve your problems. Some players you just let do their thing, because they're the journeymen who get the job done. Some players you need to actively "handle," because they're your game disruptors. You've got two coaches, and since no two people are alike, you're going to have to handle them each differently. If you're in a crew of three, you may even need to handle your crew members differently.

Case in point: In one of my Saturday games I had a kid who kept popping off to me. So I got in his grill about it. Then I hear a man in the stands hollering about how I have to handle this kid the same way I'd handle every other kid. Bull****. This kid was my game disruptor and I had to handle him differently or I will not have done my job.

Originally Posted by Corndog89

Therefore, IMO, it is incumbent we don't do or say anything that may offend anyone, even if we do it innocently.

Again, bull****. I'm there to do a job. That job involves making judgements about and exerting influence over others without undue respect to their feelings and sensitivities. Some people are going to be unhappy about what I do, no matter what I do. That goes with the territory. And while I absolutely need to be professional, and part of professionalism is not deliberately seeking to offend, I am under no obligation to watch my every word or walk on eggshells because little Johnny or Joanie (or Johnny/Joanie), or their parents, may choose to take offense at what I say or do. If I am made aware that I have offended somebody, I'll likely apologize. If I think they have a legitimate point, I will probably make a change. If I don't, I won't. In which case they can take their little crusade to change the world to the next potential convert. I don't live my life for them; they sure-as-hell ain't living their life for me.

And on the subject of authority, my authority comes from the fact that I've been hired by somebody with more authority to wear the stripes. Unlike important institutions like governments, my authority doesn't derive from the people I'm refereeing. I do not have to win their popular support. I do not have to pander to their whims. I do not have to be politically correct to win their vote. I have the whistle. I do not need to be liked, but I do have to be respected. And the surest way to lose respect is to try to conform to other people's whims.

And while I'm on a roll here, just let me say one last thing:

Another person's offense, real or pretended, at my words or actions is based on that person's perception that I have not embraced or respected their value system and/or view of the world. But by the same token, they have not embraced or respected my value system and/or view of the world. So while they clamour for my conformance to their value system, they refuse to give me the same courtesy. Political correctness is inherently a one-way street, and those who most demand other's respect seem least willing to give it.

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally Posted by Back In The Saddle

Another person's offense, real or pretended, at my words or actions is based on that person's perception that I have not embraced or respected their value system and/or view of the world. But by the same token, they have not embraced or respected my value system and/or view of the world. So while they clamour for my conformance to their value system, they refuse to give me the same courtesy. Political correctness is inherently a one-way street, and those who most demand other's respect seem least willing to give it.

Amen, BITS, amen.....

Well said.

[truerookie]

[QUOTE=Back In The Saddle]
Case in point: In one of my Saturday games I had a kid who kept popping off to me. So I got in his grill about it.

Back in the Saddle, . A kid was popping off and you got in his grill. I am left to believe whatever was said did not warrant a T. However, it warranted you to get in his grill as you stated. Clear something up for me here

How close did you get to the kid grill?

Did you maintain a distance between four to seven feet?

Because, I find it unbelieveable that someone of your stature, will take issue with a kid in this manner and get in a kid grill.

The kid popping off at the mouth could have been handle differently then you getting in his face.