"Honey Bunny"

[Dan_ref]

Originally Posted by rockyroad

...they both thought that was one of the stupidest things they had ever heard...they both said "ladies" is a term of respect and shows gentelmanly behavior from the man...

Actually what he asked was "Would either of you ladies kindly get up off your cute little bottom and get me a friggin' beer?!"

[coachgbert]

I did respond as a "lady" since I am one (at least I hope that's generally accepted by most that know me). I also am educated (master's degree), hold a full time professional position and coach young women on how to play basketball and behave in society as both women and players. I am not offended by the term lady, but then I grew up with parental orders to "act like a lady", "sit like a lady", "behave like a lady", etc. There is no excuse for the behavior of out of control players, fans and coaches. This past weekend I noted players on opposing teams that made comments to me as I coached my players. They made comments to the officials and to the fans in the stands. We also had our very first intentional foul called on an opposing team when she knocked my airborn shooter into the wall. Parents of the player that committed the foul were outraged that he would stop play to lecture both teams on playing aggressive, but playing fair and so no one gets injured.

Even though it's not up to the officials to teach manners, respect and sportsmanship, this one did a nice job of reinforcing rules. We all know that manners and respect are just rules of conduct that are learned. Officiating and teaching all in one game, he was a very good official.

Coach Gbert

[Ref_ Fred]

and?

What happened?

Like most of you we had a group of officials doing various games. when we all got done we walked out as a group and some of the veteran officials warned him that he best leave or we would call the police have place a complaint and possibly having him arrested. he did leave and nothing happened. I would have explained more if it had gotten out of control.

[coachgbert]

Originally Posted by Ref_ Fred

Like most of you we had a group of officials doing various games. when we all got done we walked out as a group and some of the veteran officials warned him that he best leave or we would call the police have place a complaint and possibly having him arrested. he did leave and nothing happened. I would have explained more if it had gotten out of control.

Wow, maybe you were at my game! One of the dad's on the opposing team went crackers and pretty much the same thing happened after the game.

Coach Gbert

[Ref_ Fred]

Wow, maybe you were at my game! One of the dad's on the opposing team went crackers and pretty much the same thing happened after the game.

Coach Gbert

Are you located in Northern Virginia? Although this is a common act, I'm not surprised if it were else where..

[coachgbert]

Originally Posted by Ref_ Fred

Are you located in Northern Virginia? Although this is a common act, I'm not surprised if it were else where..

No, Cleveland area of Ohio. Lots of that goes on here too. Seems to happen at some game in almost every tournament we enter. (EEK, after writing that it makes it sound like it either follows me or I am a jinx!)

[Ref_ Fred]

(EEK, after writing that it makes it sound like it either follows me or I am a jinx!)

It's not you, no jinx, it's all over..

Of course it probably helps that our local AAU boss is Boo Williams, so edicts coming down from him carry considerable weight.

yes he is a class act. He does not stand for any nonsense.

By the way, do you know Renaldo Ponce and Stan Trader. they are on national staff of officials.

[Jurassic Referee]

I think that there's people out there that make a career out of being offended. Aamof, they're not happy unless they can find a reason to be offended.

'Nuff said.

[Back In The Saddle]

Originally Posted by Jurassic Referee

I think that there's people out there that make a career out of being offended. Aamof, they're not happy unless they can find a reason to be offended.

'Nuff said.

I could see how a single, random person within a significantly large population could truly believe that we still live in 15th century Europe, that she is actually a Lady and feel genuinely oppressed. She probably gets so down about it that she goes home and has some peasants tortured just to cheer herself up.

While I generally try to see things from both points of view, even if I don't accept one or both as valid, this one is just silly. I agree, JR, you have to be looking for a way to be offended in this case. And frankly, if I were looking for a way to be offended, I'd feel pretty lame about picking this one. If I couldn't do any better, I'd hang my head in shame.

[Corndog89]

As officials, we are authority figures. As such, our credibility, in large part, depends on treating everyone the same. Therefore, IMO, it is incumbent we don't do or say anything that may offend anyone, even if we do it innocently. Why do we stay calm and rational when dealing with an angry coach, an irate parent, or a petulant player? Because we have to always be in control and not ever be seen as playing favorites. EVER! But if we refer to players as "ladies" or "gentlemen", we may be doing just that, even if unconsciously or inadvertantly.

I love the poll Larry S did...84 out of 84 answers thought the issue was silly. But the 85th responder may very well be the one who is genuinely offended by the term "ladies". And if so, then odds are that #85 will be be a player/coach/parent in my next game and bring me grief when I unwittingly use the term "ladies". When someone is zealous about something, even something so seemingly innocuous as the term "ladies", and you offend their sense of righteousness, then you will never regain your moral authority in their eyes, to include the authority to officiate their game. Pretty sad when you think about it. Therefore, I do my best to avoid any terminology that may be construed as offensive and keep things as simple and straightforward as possible. Just good common sense.

And I liked what a couple other people said about officials setting the tenor of good sportsmanship, civility, and personal responsibility...we should and usually do. But I think we do it with our demeanor, sense of fair play, control of our emotions, and passion for the game we love. I don't have to call men/boys "gentlemen" or women/girls "ladies" to accomplish that.

One guy's opinions....

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally Posted by Corndog89

Therefore, IMO, it is incumbent we don't do or say anything that may offend anyone, even if we do it innocently.

Therefore, I do my best to avoid any terminology that may be construed as offensive and keep things as simple and straightforward as possible. Just good common sense.

And I liked what a couple other people said about officials setting the tenor of good sportsmanship, civility, and personal responsibility...we should and usually do.

One guy's opinions....

What about the players/coaches that might be offended by good sportsmanship, civility and personal responsibility? Aren't you worried about offending them also?

Btw, I personally find the term "guy" very offensive.

[Junker]

Originally Posted by Jurassic Referee

What about the players/coaches that might be offended by good sportsmanship, civility and personal responsibility? Aren't you worried about offending them also?

Btw, I personally find the term "guy" very offensive.

Me too! I'd prefer to be called "Stud" or "Stallion".

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally Posted by Junker

Me too! I'd prefer to be called "Stud" or "Stallion".

That's fine with me, Honey Bunny.

[Raymond]

Originally Posted by Corndog89

But the 85th responder may very well be the one who is genuinely offended by the term "ladies". And if so, then odds are that #85 will be be a player/coach/parent in my next game and bring me grief when I unwittingly use the term "ladies". When someone is zealous about something, even something so seemingly innocuous as the term "ladies", and you offend their sense of righteousness, then you will never regain your moral authority in their eyes, to include the authority to officiate their game.

If I come across #85 and they are a player or a coach in a game I officiate then I would apologize for offending them and move on. If after my apology their sense of righteousness is still offended beyond repair that's something I can't control. However my authority as an official in that particular game still stands.

I've been offended many a time by people in a positions of authority (retired after 22 years of Air Force service). The fact that someone says something offensive to my personal senses did not usurp that person's power or authority.

[Back In The Saddle]

Originally Posted by Corndog89

As officials, we are authority figures. As such, our credibility, in large part, depends on treating everyone the same.

If you treat everybody the same, you're going to be a pretty ineffective referee. Some players you want to win to your side, because they can solve your problems. Some players you just let do their thing, because they're the journeymen who get the job done. Some players you need to actively "handle," because they're your game disruptors. You've got two coaches, and since no two people are alike, you're going to have to handle them each differently. If you're in a crew of three, you may even need to handle your crew members differently.

Case in point: In one of my Saturday games I had a kid who kept popping off to me. So I got in his grill about it. Then I hear a man in the stands hollering about how I have to handle this kid the same way I'd handle every other kid. Bull****. This kid was my game disruptor and I had to handle him differently or I will not have done my job.

Originally Posted by Corndog89

Therefore, IMO, it is incumbent we don't do or say anything that may offend anyone, even if we do it innocently.

Again, bull****. I'm there to do a job. That job involves making judgements about and exerting influence over others without undue respect to their feelings and sensitivities. Some people are going to be unhappy about what I do, no matter what I do. That goes with the territory. And while I absolutely need to be professional, and part of professionalism is not deliberately seeking to offend, I am under no obligation to watch my every word or walk on eggshells because little Johnny or Joanie (or Johnny/Joanie), or their parents, may choose to take offense at what I say or do. If I am made aware that I have offended somebody, I'll likely apologize. If I think they have a legitimate point, I will probably make a change. If I don't, I won't. In which case they can take their little crusade to change the world to the next potential convert. I don't live my life for them; they sure-as-hell ain't living their life for me.

And on the subject of authority, my authority comes from the fact that I've been hired by somebody with more authority to wear the stripes. Unlike important institutions like governments, my authority doesn't derive from the people I'm refereeing. I do not have to win their popular support. I do not have to pander to their whims. I do not have to be politically correct to win their vote. I have the whistle. I do not need to be liked, but I do have to be respected. And the surest way to lose respect is to try to conform to other people's whims.

And while I'm on a roll here, just let me say one last thing:

Another person's offense, real or pretended, at my words or actions is based on that person's perception that I have not embraced or respected their value system and/or view of the world. But by the same token, they have not embraced or respected my value system and/or view of the world. So while they clamour for my conformance to their value system, they refuse to give me the same courtesy. Political correctness is inherently a one-way street, and those who most demand other's respect seem least willing to give it.