A couple of rules questions

[CoachTex]

I was the scorer for several games this weekend for a tournament. Out of 17 games, there was only 1 "what do we do?". I ask you if the officials came up with the right answer.

Jump ball, team A has the possesion arrow. Team A takes ball out on the baseline, player starts running the baseline like a made basket. Ref blows the whistle, calls the violation. Team B takes ball out, throws it in and jump ball immediately occurs. The official making the call says team B's ball. Other ref says team A's. Both refs discuss and give ball to team A. Should have the possession arrow changed after team A's throw in violation?

Next question is just something I observed and have no idea if it's correct. Player A1 passes to A2 but ball is tipped by defense. The ball is rolling along the floor. A2 tries to get the ball bouncing while chasing it and the ball just keeps rolling. He is unable to get it to bounce after about 4 or 5 slaps at it. Ref blows the whistle and calls traveling. Correct?

[grizwald]

I'm not an official, just a scorekeeper like yourself, but I asked a very similar question here:

Scorekeeper here - Alertnating Poss. Arrrow Question

Based on what I was told in that thread I would say yes change the arrow on the inbouding violation, so if I read your post right I'd say they kicked the call

Lets see if I'm right.

[socalreff]

Originally Posted by CoachTex

I was the scorer for several games this weekend for a tournament. Out of 17 games, there was only 1 "what do we do?". I ask you if the officials came up with the right answer.

Jump ball, team A has the possesion arrow. Team A takes ball out on the baseline, player starts running the baseline like a made basket. Ref blows the whistle, calls the violation. Team B takes ball out, throws it in and jump ball immediately occurs. The official making the call says team B's ball. Other ref says team A's. Both refs discuss and give ball to team A. Should have the possession arrow changed after team A's throw in violation?

Next question is just something I observed and have no idea if it's correct. Player A1 passes to A2 but ball is tipped by defense. The ball is rolling along the floor. A2 tries to get the ball bouncing while chasing it and the ball just keeps rolling. He is unable to get it to bounce after about 4 or 5 slaps at it. Ref blows the whistle and calls traveling. Correct?

On the 1st play, as soon as team A violates on the throw-in, they lose the arrow as well. Team B should have maintained possession after their throw-in resulted in a held ball. (1st ref was right.)

On the 2nd play, the official is just making stuff up. One cannot travel without control of the ball. Another situation where ugly or unusual does not merit a whistle--- play on.

[cmathews]

Originally Posted by Jurassic Referee

1) The AP arrow goes to team B after A's throw-in violation. The arrow then should change to team A as soon as team B's subsequent throw-in is touched on the floor. The held ball now gives possession to team A. Iow, the officials got 'er right.

2) You can't travel during a dribble. You also can't travel unless you're holding the ball. Iow, it doesn't sound like a travel.

JR why would B lose the arrow on a throw in for A's violation?

[socalreff]

Originally Posted by Jurassic Referee

1) The AP arrow goes to team B after A's throw-in violation. The arrow then should change to team A as soon as team B's subsequent throw-in is touched on the floor. The held ball now gives possession to team A. Iow, the officials got 'er right.

2) You can't travel during a dribble. You also can't travel unless you're holding the ball. Iow, it doesn't sound like a travel.

Team B's throw-in was not an AP throw-in. They got the ball because of A's violation. Therefore, the arrow should not have been changed. They got it wrong. Read the situation again and see if you agree.

[JugglingReferee]

Originally Posted by CoachTex

I was the scorer for several games this weekend for a tournament. Out of 17 games, there was only 1 "what do we do?". I ask you if the officials came up with the right answer.

Jump ball, team A has the possesion arrow. Team A takes ball out on the baseline, player starts running the baseline like a made basket. Ref blows the whistle, calls the violation. Team B takes ball out, throws it in and jump ball immediately occurs. The official making the call says team B's ball. Other ref says team A's. Both refs discuss and give ball to team A. Should have the possession arrow changed after team A's throw in violation?

Yes. B's ball. Officials kicked it.

Originally Posted by CoachTex

Next question is just something I observed and have no idea if it's correct. Player A1 passes to A2 but ball is tipped by defense. The ball is rolling along the floor. A2 tries to get the ball bouncing while chasing it and the ball just keeps rolling. He is unable to get it to bounce after about 4 or 5 slaps at it. Ref blows the whistle and calls traveling. Correct?

No.

[Raymond]

The AP arrow should have changed to B, however their throw-in was not an AP throw-in, it a was normal throw-in following a violation. The subsenquent held ball should have went to B as result of the new AP status.

[cmathews]

Jurrasic,
I might be misreading your posts, but in your first post I understand you to say that A should have the ball??

I agree that A loses the arrow when they violate. B now has the arrow and the ball for a throw in. The throw in results in a held ball. B should now have the AP throw in correct??

[cmathews]

Jurrasic,
Why are we switching the arrow on a throw in that isn't an AP throw in???

[icallfouls]

On the AP question, since A violated their AP opportunity by not adhering to the spot throw in, this resulted in the next AP opportunity being given to B. A has committed a violation and B is given the ball to inbound as a result of the violation, not the AP. Once inbounded, there is a held ball, possession is awarded to B.

B does not get penalized for A's violation.

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally Posted by BadNewsRef

The AP arrow should have changed to B however their throw-in was not an AP throw-in, it a was normal throw-in following a violation. The subsenquent held ball should have went to B as result of the new AP status.

Upon further review, you're right.

Better go back and change a few posts.....

[JugglingReferee]

Originally Posted by Jurassic Referee

What difference what it make? The first touching ends the throw-in(rule 4-42-5) and also means that AP arrow is reversed. On the held ball, you go with the arrow-- which has just been reversed by the first touching.

The only held-ball situation where this rule doesn't apply is the case where the thrower holds the ball through the plane- and the defender then grabs it, causing a held ball. In that case, the throw-in didn't end because the thrower still had the ball. R4-42-5 says that also, and case book play 6.4.5SitB outlines that specific situation.

LOL I got all confused after reading the posts again and again. I realize now that the post you replied to was dumb. I'll go delete it now.

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally Posted by cmathews

Jurrasic,
I might be misreading your posts, but in your first post I understand you to say that A should have the ball??

I agree that A loses the arrow when they violate. B now has the arrow and the ball for a throw in. The throw in results in a held ball. B should now have the AP throw in correct??

Correct.

BadNewsRef showed me the error of my ways....

[icallfouls]

nice call JR

[CoachTex]

Originally Posted by socalreff

Another situation where ugly or unusual does not merit a whistle--- play on.

Thanks for the replies! I'm disappointed in myself for not remembering the complete rule. Who could forget a rule that reads "an alternating posession throw-in ends when the throw-in ends". I knew there was something about the throw-in team violating but I wasn't going to be part of the game. That's the officials' job right?

And I see a lot of violations called on "ugly". And there's a lot of "ugly" in youth basketball