Scorekeeper here - Alertnating Poss. Arrrow Question

grizwald · #1 (**permalink**) Mon Feb 06, 2006, 11:51am

Hey guys,

I keep the scorebook/scoreboard sometimes for my daughter's teams.

I had a question for you guys:

RE: The alternating possession arrow.

I had been told to not switch the arrow until the ball has been inbounded years ago (back in High School - when I also occasionally had scorekeeper duties).

I was told that the reason for this is that are some types of infractions on the inbounds where the arrow won't move.

The only problem is that I don't remember any more than that about the specifics.

So I was wondering two things:

A) Is this true or not?
and
B) If it is true, a list of types of situations both where the arrow will change and where it won't.

Any help would be appreciated, just figuring if I'm going to keep score, I might as well try to do the best job I can.

Thanks

bob jenkins · #2 (**permalink**) Mon Feb 06, 2006, 12:11pm

Swithc the arrow when the passed ball is touched by a player or when the inbounding team violates.

Do not switch the arrow when either team commits a foul before the pass is touched.

Texas Aggie · #3 (**permalink**) Mon Feb 06, 2006, 12:22pm

I think this has changed, but I'm not sure when. It used to be (early '90s and before, if I recall right) when the ball was at the disposal of the thrower. BJ is correct on the current rule. Also, keep in mind that if the team throwing the ball in violates (such as a designated spot violation, or by throwing the ball out of bounds), the arrow is switched as well.

WhistlesAndStripes · #4 (**permalink**) Mon Feb 06, 2006, 01:17pm

And, from a thread last week, if the defense commits a boundary plane warning violation on an AP throw in, then the arrow will not change on the subsequent throw in.

grizwald · #5 (**permalink**) Tue May 16, 2006, 09:36am

Situation this past weekend.

Jump ball is called. After the play, A1 is called for a technical foul for a reaction to the physical play that lead to the jump ball.

Arrow was pointing Team B's direction (but I don't think it matters).

The "T" is going to cancel out the jump ball regardless of which way the arrow was pointing, correct?

It should be Team B shooting 2 free throws, and ball OOB to Team B. Arrow stays with Team B after the ball is live again, right?

ChuckElias · #6 (**permalink**) Tue May 16, 2006, 09:39am

Yup, that's right griz. The penalty for the T includes possession, so we don't have to go to the arrow at all.

Dan_ref · #7 (**permalink**) Tue May 16, 2006, 09:41am

Quote:

Originally Posted by grizwald

Situation this past weekend.

Jump ball is called. After the play, A1 is called for a technical foul for a reaction to the physical play that lead to the jump ball.

Arrow was pointing Team B's direction (but I don't think it matters).

The "T" is going to cancel out the jump ball regardless of which way the arrow was pointing, correct?

It should be Team B shooting 2 free throws, and ball OOB to Team B. Arrow stays with Team B after the ball is live again, right?

Yes, that's correct under nfhs rules which does not use POI after technical fouls.

ChuckElias · #8 (**permalink**) Tue May 16, 2006, 09:58am

Good point, Dan. I assumed FED rules, but I should've asked which set we were talking about. The NCAA rule is different.

If A1's "reaction" was verbal, then according to NCAA rules, we'd assess the T, then go to the POI, which was the held ball. So the ball is put in play by the arrow.

If A1's "reaction" was to push the guy that tied him up, this would be an intentional technical and the administration would be the same as the FED rule.

grizwald · #9 (**permalink**) Tue May 16, 2006, 10:20am

I'm pretty sure the reaction was either verbal or extreme body language. But these were HS rules, so I guess it didn't matter. The play happened in one of the far side corners from the table so I really couldn't tell you for sure. It "might" have been a push after the play.

Good to know that it makes a difference because this was AAU ball and for National tourney's they will use NCAA-W rules. So NCAA rules is Point of Interuption on a technical foul? That is a fairly recent change, right?

Dan_ref · #10 (**permalink**) Tue May 16, 2006, 10:30am

Quote:

Originally Posted by grizwald

I'm pretty sure the reaction was either verbal or extreme body language. But these were HS rules, so I guess it didn't matter. The play happened in one of the far side corners from the table so I really couldn't tell you for sure. It "might" have been a push after the play.

Good to know that it makes a difference because this was AAU ball and for National tourney's they will use NCAA-W rules. So NCAA rules is Point of Interuption on a technical foul? That is a fairly recent change, right?

You need to be careful, I believe the men's rules differ here - I'm not sure the NCAA-W rule treats a dead ball contact foul in the same way as the mens rules. I could be wrong but I think they go to POI for this.

btw...for some reason the NCAA can't figure out how they want T's handled, so almost ANY current rule related to T's is fairly new.

JasonTX · #11 (**permalink**) Tue May 16, 2006, 11:49am

Not intending to hijack the thread, but why do womens and mens NCAA rules differ? Wouldn't it be much easier to just have one set of rules for NCAA?

Raymond · #12 (**permalink**) Tue May 16, 2006, 01:47pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by JasonTX

Not intending to hijack the thread, but why do womens and mens NCAA rules differ? Wouldn't it be much easier to just have one set of rules for NCAA?

I always wonder about that also...I can understand some of the differences when it comes to how the game is played, ie: closely guarded, 10-second count b/c; but I never understood why the differences in some of the technical foul rules.

JRutledge · #13 (**permalink**) Tue May 16, 2006, 02:02pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by JasonTX

Not intending to hijack the thread, but why do womens and mens NCAA rules differ? Wouldn't it be much easier to just have one set of rules for NCAA?

They both want to be different from each other and other levels. In the NCAA the Men has a committee, the Women has a committee as well. I know that historically the NCAA has tried to be a lot different from the NBA (MLB or even the NFL if you look at rules). In recent years NCAA Women's has made a huge effort to merge with many of the philosophies of the NBA. This really became obvious when the WNBA was started in the mid 90s and it seems like year after year the Women's side adopts a philosophy or mechanic the mirrors the NBA/WNBA. It would also not make it "easier" if the sets were the same, if for no other reason the officials that work Women's basketball or Men's Basketball do not work the other side. A lot of the very top Women's officials work the WNBA during the college off season. Men's officials are only going to work NCAA games and would have to give up college basketball if they got a realistic shot at the NBA. This is why you have the very small details that are very different between all the levels.

Peace