Double Foul Before Try Is Released

[Raymond]

Sanity check since I'm no longer a rules nerd since coming off the court these last three seasons.

A1 is clearly in his shooting motion. Prior to the release of the shot, B2 and A2 foul each other. The try is successful.

Does continuous motion apply since one of the fouls was on the defense, or does continuous motion not apply since the double foul occurred while there was still team control prior to the release of the try.

Same situation, but the try is unsuccessful. Do we go to the AP arrow or does Team A get the ball back?


Now make the DF on A1 and B1 prior to the release of the try. Does that change any of the rulings?

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[SNIPERBBB]

Since we dont have a try and there's no continuation with a double foul...ball is dead, no basket, throw in for A

[Raymond]

Originally Posted by SNIPERBBB

Since we dont have a try and there's no continuation with a double foul...ball is dead, no basket, throw in for A

I'm participating in a discussion in a Facebook group in which I'm being told the status of the ball (try release or not released) is not of consequence in adjudicating a certain play scenario involving a double foul.



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[SNIPERBBB]

Guessing it's not the NFHS Basketball or Basketball Official Forum pages as thTa the ok only ones other than the state page I follow for basketball.

Would be nice for a direct case play for this.

[Raymond]

Originally Posted by SNIPERBBB

Guessing it's not the NFHS Basketball or Basketball Official Forum pages as thTa the ok only ones other than the state page I follow for basketball.

Would be nice for a direct case play for this.

It's REF CHAT, officials mostly based out of the NYC area and North Jersey. The guy who runs it is a friend of mine from when he used to officiate down here in Virginia. But he's also one of the ones pushing the narrative that ball status does not matter in this situation.

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[bob jenkins]

It's been discussed here several times, and never sufficiently resolved, to my way of thinking.

[JRutledge]

I think you can only have continuous motion on a defensive foul. A double foul would kill the play IMO because it does not fit the premise of a defensive foul. Just like a blarge can result in a GT or BI if a player commits that violation and the ball has been released. I get that this is probably a non-addressed situation in the rules or interpretation, but the rules seem to make the intention clear. But I have been wrong before taking similar stances.

Peace

[Zoochy]

go to 6:20 of the video
https://mshsaa.tv/?B=845534

Double foul (Blarge) before release.
Did the officials get it right?

[Raymond]

Originally Posted by Zoochy

go to 6:20 of the video

https://mshsaa.tv/?B=845534



Double foul (Blarge) before release.

Did the officials get it right?

Not in my opinion. But this is the same crew that messed up the opening tip, so who knows what they were thinking or applying.

Based on the throw-in, they ruled the double foul occurred after the release and counted the goal with the POI being the defensive team's throw-in.

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[BillyMac]

Does continuous motion apply to a double foul?

[Raymond]

Originally Posted by BillyMac

Does continuous motion apply to a double foul?

That's the original question?

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[Mike Goodwin]

Originally Posted by Zoochy

go to 6:20 of the video
https://mshsaa.tv/?B=845534

Double foul (Blarge) before release.
Did the officials get it right?

Oof, not a good way to start out. When G20 received the pass, W11 became the primary defender and that matchup was in Center's PCA. Lead signaled quickly (as is often the case). The two whistles were nearly the same length, so it's plausible that Center didn't hear it and also did not 'post and hold' then make eye contact with Lead before signaling. At the time of G20's PCF (his part of the eventual double-foul call), the ball had not been released, so scoring the goal was incorrect. The ball should have been awarded to Gold at the closer of the two, 3' marks on the end line in Gold's front court as they had team control at the time of the double foul, per 4-36-2a(1).

[Zoochy]

Originally Posted by Raymond

Not in my opinion. But this is the same crew that messed up the opening tip, so who knows what they were thinking or applying.

Based on the throw-in, they ruled the double foul occurred after the release and counted the goal with the POI being the defensive team's throw-in.

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Nope, this was from last year. The non calling official is a female. No female in my previous Jump Ball/Backcourt thread.
See https://forum.officiating.com/basket...-blarge-2.html

[Mike Goodwin]

Originally Posted by Raymond

Sanity check since I'm no longer a rules nerd since coming off the court these last three seasons.

A1 is clearly in his shooting motion. Prior to the release of the shot, B2 and A2 foul each other. The try is successful.

Does continuous motion apply since one of the fouls was on the defense, or does continuous motion not apply since the double foul occurred while there was still team control prior to the release of the try.

Same situation, but the try is unsuccessful. Do we go to the AP arrow or does Team A get the ball back?


Now make the DF on A1 and B1 prior to the release of the try. Does that change any of the rulings?

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Rule 4-11-1 says, "Continuous motion applies to a try or tap for field goals and free throws, but it has no significance unless there is a foul by any defensive player during the interval which begins when the habitual throwing movement starts a try or with the touching on a tap and ends when the ball is clearly in flight."

Rule 4-11-3 says "Continuous motion does not apply if a teammate fouls after a player has started a try or tap for goal and before the ball is in flight. The ball becomes dead immediately."

Part of the definition of a double foul (4-19-8) includes fouls by both teams, one of whom is referenced in 4-11-3. This does not 'cancel out' simply by the fact there is also a foul by any defensive player as in 4-11-1.

Neither the rules book nor casebook contain an exception for a double foul as it relates to continuous motion.

As a result, the ball should become dead immediately when the double foul is ruled. Play would resume in the two scenarios above with a throw-in at the designated spot per rules 4-36-2a(1) and 7-5-3.