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To me it's quite simple and there is nothing to be solved.
If an offensive player commits a foul while there is team control, the ball is immediately dead, whether it's part of a single foul or a double foul. It was actually part of NCAA Men's preseason clinic videos a couple years in conjunction with the expansion of replay review, and their rules are the same as high school in regards to this situation. It's clean and simple. Sent from my SM-N950U using Tapatalk
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A-hole formerly known as BNR Last edited by Raymond; Sat Dec 16, 2023 at 10:19am. |
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Keep It Clean And Simple ...
Quote:
6-7-4: The ball becomes dead, or remains dead, when: A player-control or team-control foul occurs. Exception: The ball does not become dead until the try or tap for field goal ends, or until the airborne shooter returns to the floor, when: c. Article 7 (a foul, other than player-control or team-control, occurs) occurs by any opponent of a player who has started a try or tap for field goal (is in the act of shooting) before the foul occurred, provided time did not expire before the ball was in flight … continuous motion. Sounds simple and rational. But this is a double foul, which supposedly, by tradition (I've heard this "blarge" explanation for over forty years), is neither a team/player control foul, nor a foul by an opponent of the shooter. However, on the third hand we have this: 6.7.4 SITUATION: Airborne A1 is fouled by B1 during a field-goal try or tap. After the ball is in flight, A1 illegally contacts B2 in returning to the floor. The ball goes through the basket. RULING: The foul by B1 did not cause the ball to become dead since A1 had started the trying or tapping motion. However, airborne shooter A1’s foul is a player-control foul which does cause the ball to become dead immediately. No goal can be scored even if the ball had already gone through the basket before the foul. Since the goal is unsuccessful, A1 is awarded two free throws for the foul by B1. No players are allowed in the lane spaces as Team B will be awarded the ball following the last free throw. If the last throw is successful, the throw-in is from anywhere along the end line. If the last throw is unsuccessful, the throw-in is from a designated spot nearest the foul. The situation is a false double foul. (4-11; 4-19-6) But this (above), on the fourth hand, is not a double foul, it's a false double foul.
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"For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life." (John 3:16) “I was in prison and you came to visit me.” (Matthew 25:36) Last edited by BillyMac; Sat Dec 16, 2023 at 10:47am. |
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Bob:
I was writing quickly. I knew that it was not as simple as that but back in the middle and late 1980s the procedure was introduced in CCA's Women's Two- and Three-Person Officials Manual. I am sure that the procedure has been refined since I retired from college officiating in 2008. But the fact still remains: By Rule, it is has never been possible to have a "blarge". The NCAA Women's Committee understood this from the start while the NFHS and NCAA Men's Committees still cling to a 65 year-plus impossibility. MTD, Sr.
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Mark T. DeNucci, Sr. Trumbull Co. (Warren, Ohio) Bkb. Off. Assn. Wood Co. (Bowling Green, Ohio) Bkb. Off. Assn. Ohio Assn. of Basketball Officials International Assn. of Approved Bkb. Officials Ohio High School Athletic Association Toledo, Ohio |
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Quote:
It's right in the definitions. I don't have time for all the references, but a PC foul is a common foul. A common foul is not part of a double foul. And, that's the reason for the case play allowing the basket when the ball has been released. |
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Fouls ...
Quote:
A player-control foul is a common foul committed by a player while he/she is in control of the ball or by an airborne shooter. A double personal foul is a situation in which two opponents commit personal fouls against each other at approximately the same time.
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"For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life." (John 3:16) “I was in prison and you came to visit me.” (Matthew 25:36) |
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Let's Go To The Videotape ...
4-11-2: If an opponent fouls after a player has started a try for goal, he/she is permitted to complete the customary arm movement, and if pivoting or stepping when fouled, may complete the usual foot or body movement in any activity while holding the ball. These privileges are granted only when the usual throwing motion has started before the foul occurs and before the ball is in flight.
4-11-3: Continuous motion does not apply if a teammate fouls after a player has started a try for a goal and before the ball is in flight. The ball becomes dead immediately. Is a "teammate" be the same as the "player" (shooter) himself?
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"For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life." (John 3:16) “I was in prison and you came to visit me.” (Matthew 25:36) Last edited by BillyMac; Sun Dec 17, 2023 at 06:21pm. |
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Quote:
"4-11-3 is the closest thing that addresses it. If a teammate of A1 was part of the double foul, continuous motion would not apply. Nowhere have I read there's an exception if A1 themself is part of the double foul." Sent from my SM-N950U using Tapatalk
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A-hole formerly known as BNR |
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Not Going To Die On This Hill ...
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As Raymond said "4-11-3 is the closest thing that addresses it." Closest doesn't mean the same as "touching", it's just real close. I'm not going to die on any hill regarding this "before the release" situation. This may be one of those issues that only the NFHS can fully address, not the rule "experts" on the Forum. I'm not being sarcastic here, I truly do view many Forum posters as rule experts.
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"For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life." (John 3:16) “I was in prison and you came to visit me.” (Matthew 25:36) Last edited by BillyMac; Mon Dec 18, 2023 at 01:24pm. |
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Based on a FB post I just read by the NCAA-Women's Rules Editor, in their games the ball is immediately dead if the try has not been released and there is a double foul. So in both Men's and Women's College there is no continuous motion on a double foul. As far as I know, there is no discernable difference in the rule at the HS level.
Sent from my SM-N950U using Tapatalk
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A-hole formerly known as BNR |
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