Double T, shoot free throws?

[Coach Bill]

Originally Posted by Raymond

As I've already posted, the rule book is wrong. A bulletin was sent out in regards to CDBT and Flagrant fouls. The throw-in was put in at the division line by mistake, as that used to be the throw-in spot for CDBT.

Bottom-line, if there is a Flagrant technical foul or CDBT technical foul involved, the offended team gets a throw-in at a designated spot. It is not administered as POI.

The bulletin that I read seemed to make it clear that this is correct rule to apply:

h. When a double technical foul or any simultaneous foul occurs during
a stopped-clock period, all fouls shall be charged but no free throws
shall be awarded if the penalties are equal. Only the number of free
throws awarded shall be used to determine if the penalties are equal. If
the penalties are not equal, all free throws shall be administered. The
game shall resume at the point of interruption using the procedures
in Rule 7-3.2 unless one team has been awarded possession of the ball
as part of a penalty.

Case Book Correction to A.R. 130 – Rewrite of Ruling – “When the technical fouls assessed against A1 and B1 occur during the same dead ball period, the technical fouls are charged but no free throws are awarded."

I think the correct ruling is no free throws, Norfolk Ball on the endline. But, like Raymond said the rule book is contradictory in places. There is a Foul/Penalty chart on page 113, that says on a double technical (live or dead), you don't shoot free throws unless one of the fouls is a flagrant 2. TBH, that is what I was looking at initially in the OP when I pointed out no one was ejected, and wondering why free throws were shot.

[Raymond]

4-15 Art. 4. False double foul. A false double foul occurs when there are fouls by both teams, the second of which occurs before the game clock is started after it is stopped for the first.


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[Raymond]

Originally Posted by Coach Bill

The bulletin that I read seemed to make it clear that this is correct rule to apply:



h. When a double technical foul or any simultaneous foul occurs during

a stopped-clock period, all fouls shall be charged but no free throws

shall be awarded if the penalties are equal. Only the number of free

throws awarded shall be used to determine if the penalties are equal. If

the penalties are not equal, all free throws shall be administered. The

game shall resume at the point of interruption using the procedures

in Rule 7-3.2 unless one team has been awarded possession of the ball

as part of a penalty.



Case Book Correction to A.R. 130 – Rewrite of Ruling – “When the technical fouls assessed against A1 and B1 occur during the same dead ball period, the technical fouls are charged but no free throws are awarded."



I think the correct ruling is no free throws, Norfolk Ball on the endline. But, like Raymond said the rule book is contradictory in places. There is a Foul/Penalty chart on page 113, that says on a double technical (live or dead), you don't shoot free throws unless one of the fouls is a flagrant 2. TBH, that is what I was looking at initially in the OP when I pointed out no one was ejected, and wondering why free throws were shot.

The NCAA Men's rules committee frequently makes editing errors that are eventually caught by officials. It was pointed out by us officials in February that the throw-in spot was incorrect for double fouls. The rules committee didn't even realize it was wrong until they sent out a bulletin about double fouls and a bunch of officials like me emailed them to say the throw-in spot was incorrect and wondering why the rule had been changed. Turned out the wording in the book was wrong.

The exception for CDBT technical fouls I referenced is actually under the Class A technical foul penalty paragraph in the rule book. I'm going with the penalty enforcement that is directly tied to the Class A Technical Foul rule over inconsistencies found under Scoring and Timing, Throw-ins, or Personal Fouls. I chalk it up to sloppiness by Art Hyland's editing team

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[ilyazhito]

Originally Posted by Raymond

The four spots would apply if it were a front court throw-in. If it's a back court throw-in, it goes to a designated spot closest to where the infraction took place.

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AFAIK, the stoppage of play for the technical fouls was in Coppin State's backcourt (Norfolk State's frontcourt). A Norfolk State player mouthed off to a Coppin State player right after he scored, followed by the Coppin State player pushing him. Thus, Norfolk State would get the ball at the nearest spot to the infraction (in the frontcourt) following the free throws, and thus the 4 spots would apply.

[Coach Bill]

Originally Posted by ilyazhito

AFAIK, the stoppage of play for the technical fouls was in Coppin State's backcourt (Norfolk State's frontcourt). A Norfolk State player mouthed off to a Coppin State player right after he scored, followed by the Coppin State player pushing him. Thus, Norfolk State would get the ball at the nearest spot to the infraction (in the frontcourt) following the free throws, and thus the 4 spots would apply.

With all due respect, watch it again. Norfolk State blocked the ball out of bounds under Coppin's basket.

[Raymond]

Originally Posted by ilyazhito

AFAIK, the stoppage of play for the technical fouls was in Coppin State's backcourt (Norfolk State's frontcourt). A Norfolk State player mouthed off to a Coppin State player right after he scored, followed by the Coppin State player pushing him. Thus, Norfolk State would get the ball at the nearest spot to the infraction (in the frontcourt) following the free throws, and thus the 4 spots would apply.

It was after NSU blocked a CSU shot. Video is in the first post. You know I'm detail oriented.

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[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by Raymond

4-15 Art. 4. False double foul. A false double foul occurs when there are fouls by both teams, the second of which occurs before the game clock is started after it is stopped for the first.

Thank you.

Originally Posted by bob jenkins

you can get the NCAA definition on line for free.

Free here on the Forum also. I'm assuming that Raymond won't be billing me.