Fun With The Division Line ...

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by Camron Rust

Thus, when the interrupted dribble is touched by a teammate, that seems like it would be a pass to me and should be treated as such.

.. and we would allow said player to start a new dribble.

9-5-3: A player must not dribble a second time after his/her first dribble has ended, unless it is after he/she has lost control because of: A pass or fumble which has then touched, or been touched by, another player.

But did his first dribble actually end?

4-14: The dribble ends when: The dribbler catches or causes the ball to come to rest in one or both hands.The dribbler palms/carries the ball by allowing it to come to rest in one or both hands.The dribbler simultaneously touches the ball with both hands.The ball touches or is touched by an opponent and causes the dribbler to lose control. The ball becomes dead.

For there to be a "second dribble" the "first dribble" must end.

If the dribble didn't end, he could "continue" to dribble without using (or needing) the benefit of the 9-5-3 exception (touched by, another player).

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by Camron Rust

When the ball is batted, thrown, rolled, to a teammate, the action is considered a pass. We've considered that to be the case forever when it comes to whether we consider an act a dribble vs. a pass with respect to the illegal dribble and travel rules.

Originally Posted by BillyMac

4-14: The dribble ends when: The dribbler catches or causes the ball to come to rest in one or both hands.The dribbler palms/carries the ball by allowing it to come to rest in one or both hands.The dribbler simultaneously touches the ball with both hands.The ball touches or is touched by an opponent and causes the dribbler to lose control. The ball becomes dead.

In the regular, garden variety basketball play of a dribbler making an off the dribble bounce pass to a teammate, when, by definition, does the dribble actually end (and the pass begin)?

When the player is no longer dribbling?

How does one define "no longer" dribbling?

I don't believe that all answers can be found in 4-14 (above).

One must go beyond 4-14 to define the end of a dribble in some cases, often very common cases, not odd, or rare, at all.

Could the answer be when the dribble changes into a pass (à la Camron Rust), or a shot, or something else?

How about, when the dribbler is no longer batting (intentionally strikes the ball with the hand) or pushing the ball to the floor?

4-15-1: A dribble is ball movement caused by a player in control who bats (intentionally strikes the ball with the hand(s)) or pushes the ball to the floor once or several times.

Going back dozens of posts, is an interrupted dribble still a dribble?

Is the ball being intentionally struck with the hand?

Did the dribble ever end in the video?

Did the deflection end the dribble, or did the deflection just change the dribble into an interrupted dribble (which may still have been a part of a dribble)?

Would we all allow a player to "catch up" to an interrupted dribble (deflected off the dribbler's leg) and continue to dribble?

We wouldn't if we considered the interrupted dribble (deflected off dribbler's leg) to end the "first dribble", it would be an illegal (second) dribble.

Things that make you go hmmm.