Fun With The Division Line ...

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

... likely not very clear ... it is an interrupted dribble, but the ball had FC status while the player is touching the ball ...

Dribble off hand? Ball is still considered to be in the backcourt (three points). Legal. Play on.

Deflection off leg? Ball is considered to be in the frontcourt (like if the ball had been passed to him and he touched but muffed catching the pass while he was standing in the frontcourt), leading to a backcourt violation?

Not agreeing, but not disagreeing either.

Maybe one of those fuzzy, gray areas that the NFHS hasn't considered in the past zillion years?

Is an interrupted dribble a dribble?

Has the dribble ended?

4-15-4: The dribble ends when:
a. The dribbler catches or causes the ball to come to rest in one or both hands.
b. The dribbler palms/carries the ball by allowing it to come to rest in one or both hands.
c. The dribbler simultaneously touches the ball with both hands.
d. The ball touches or is touched by an opponent and causes the dribbler to lose control.
e. The ball becomes dead.

None of these five things happened.

I think that this interrupted dribble is still a dribble (it hasn't ended) and that the "three points" rule is still in effect and applies.

Just my opinion, not cast in bronze.

[Nevadaref]

The three-points rule states that the ball must touch the court, not a player, in the frontcourt in order to gain frontcourt status.

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by BillyMac

Is an interrupted dribble a dribble? Has the dribble ended?
4-15-4: The dribble ends when:
a. The dribbler catches or causes the ball to come to rest in one or both hands.
b. The dribbler palms/carries the ball by allowing it to come to rest in one or both hands.
c. The dribbler simultaneously touches the ball with both hands.
d. The ball touches or is touched by an opponent and causes the dribbler to lose control.
e. The ball becomes dead.
None of these five things happened. I think that this interrupted dribble is still a dribble (it hasn't ended) and that the "three points" rule is still in effect and applies.

Originally Posted by Nevadaref

The three-points rule states that the ball must touch the court, not a player, in the frontcourt in order to gain frontcourt status.

Agree. After looking at the definition of ending a dribble, I'm convinced that this was a legal play, and not a backcourt violation.

Nice thread.

[Camron Rust]

I believe this is a legal play. The ball was being dribbled from the backcourt and to obtain frontcourt status the ball itself must touch the floor in the frontcourt (along with the feet). The ball never bounced on the floor, thus, the ball was never in the frontcourt. As such, there can't be a backcourt violation.

[JRutledge]

All I am saying is if the player "dribbled" off his leg that is touching the FC (meaning he is in the FC by rule) then the ball goes into the BC, that is a violation. That is what I believe I see in this play, but we are kind of screened from a clear view of the player and the ball at the time there appears to be some kind of deflection that makes the ball go into the BC. But if the dribble hit the floor, then they must have all 3 points to be in the FC first, which I am not sure happened here.

Interesting play and why we review these plays in the first place.

Peace

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

All I am saying is if the player "dribbled" off his leg that is touching the FC (meaning he is in the FC by rule).

True, the player is in the frontcourt, but the "three point rule" says that during a dribble, the ball must be dribbled onto the frontcourt to gain frontcourt status, and it never was.

Originally Posted by JRutledge

... there appears to be some kind of deflection that makes the ball go into the BC.

Maybe, not clear how the ball goes "backward". That being said, a "self deflection", while an interrupted dribble, is still part of a dribble (by rule definition the dribble never ended) and an interrupted dribble has the exact same relevance as a "regular" dribble to the "three point rule", so the ball never touched the frontcourt, thus a legal play.

Originally Posted by JRutledge

... if the dribble hit the floor, then they must have all 3 points to be in the FC first, which I am not sure happened here.

Agree. All three points never got into the frontcourt. Legal play.

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by BillyMac

True, the player is in the frontcourt, but the "three point rule" says that during a dribble, the ball must be dribbled into the frontcourt to gain frontcourt status, and it never was.



Maybe, not clear how the ball goes "backward". That being said, a "self deflection", while an interrupted dribble, is still part of a dribble (by rule definition the dribble never ended) and an interrupted dribble has the exact same relevance as a "regular" dribble to the "three point rule", so the ball never touched the frontcourt, thus a legal play.



Agree. All three points never got into the frontcourt. Legal play.

Yes but a dribble means hitting the floor. If the dribble is interrupted and hits a player in the FC that has FC status (you do have FC status if you touch the ball with all feet and body parts in the FC), then the issue of dribbling would not apply IMO. Not different than a fumble where you are touching the FC and you are touching the ball that is not touching the floor. So everything is in the FC at that moment and then if you knock the ball into the BC, then the BC rules might apply on the last touch, first touch.

Peace