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Avoid Correctable Errors ...
And apparently for the NFHS since they have a casebook play that specifically deals with this situation.
One rule does. One rule doesn't. When the time frame of a correctable error has not passed, it is true that the free throws must be attempted at the correct basket, but when the time frame of a correctable error has passed that's not true, the free throws don't have to be attempted at the correct basket, and if points are scored, they count for the shooting team (4-5). Quote:
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"For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life." (John 3:16) “I was in prison and you came to visit me.” (Matthew 25:36) Last edited by BillyMac; Mon Jul 12, 2021 at 04:37pm. |
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4-5 Nobody Gets Cheated By An Official's Mistake ...
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Not free throws, and not a mistake by the officials, but you haven't officiated very long if you have never observed a confused player attempting to shoot at the "wrong" basket and any points scored count for the "other" team (with all the complications if said player is fouled by an equally confused defender).
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"For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life." (John 3:16) “I was in prison and you came to visit me.” (Matthew 25:36) Last edited by BillyMac; Mon Jul 12, 2021 at 05:16pm. |
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Newbie Sarcasm ...
Are Forum members with less than fifty posts allowed to be sarcastic?
Maybe someone who travels to games in puddle jumpers has paid his "dues" and is allowed to be what he wants to be?
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"For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life." (John 3:16) “I was in prison and you came to visit me.” (Matthew 25:36) Last edited by BillyMac; Mon Jul 12, 2021 at 05:18pm. |
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I'll answer for you--nothing at all. Nobody has ever been confused enough to think that shooting free throws at the wrong basket will count as points for the opponent, so I don't know why you're posting 20 plus times to yourself on the subject. Sent from my SM-N950U using Tapatalk
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A-hole formerly known as BNR |
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Wrong Baskets ...
Quote:
These (not free throws) sometimes confuse some non-officials. I've had middle school coaches and recreation league coaches (often parent coaches) who are flabbergasted that the points count for the other team, believing that the points should just be cancelled for some reason.
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"For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life." (John 3:16) “I was in prison and you came to visit me.” (Matthew 25:36) Last edited by BillyMac; Mon Jul 12, 2021 at 07:18pm. |
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No Regrets ...
My multiple posts in this thread resulted in Mike Goodwin's great citation (wrong basket free throws), a citation that nobody else was able to come up with (bob jenkins came close), so I have no guilt about my many posts in this thread. Regarding a slightly different situation earlier in this thread (substitution), my posts sparked Nevadaref to come up with a great citation as well. And by talking myself through it, I was also able to come up with a few good citations myself (8-2 and 4-5). The results speak for themselves. My stubborn persistence paid off.
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"For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life." (John 3:16) “I was in prison and you came to visit me.” (Matthew 25:36) Last edited by BillyMac; Mon Jul 12, 2021 at 07:40pm. |
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It's just a correctable error to everyone else. The free throws were shot at the wrong basket. It's correctable whether the free throws were missed or made. Sent from my SM-N950U using Tapatalk
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A-hole formerly known as BNR |
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... Sent from my SM-N950U using Tapatalk
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A-hole formerly known as BNR Last edited by Raymond; Mon Jul 12, 2021 at 10:28pm. |
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Interpretation Of Some Type ...
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In the back of my mind I think I knew that there was a interpretation of some type that kept whispering to me to count the free throws for the shooter's team, I just couldn't put my finger on it, and was quite pleased when Mike Goodwin finally posted it.
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"For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life." (John 3:16) “I was in prison and you came to visit me.” (Matthew 25:36) Last edited by BillyMac; Mon Jul 12, 2021 at 10:59pm. |
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This was you who asked this question, correct?
"Is this treated as any other "wrong way" basket, two points counting for the team that "owns" the basket?" So are we supposed to take it now that you are being disingenuous when you ask a question? Your goal is really to be some kind of passive aggressive proxy for other officials who, in your estimation, need guidance? My most highly successful mentor has a pet peeve. That peeve is people asking questions they obviously already know the answer to just to draw attention to themselves. Sent from my SM-N950U using Tapatalk
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A-hole formerly known as BNR Last edited by Raymond; Mon Jul 12, 2021 at 11:44pm. |
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My Evil Plan ...
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While not a perfect description, Raymond came pretty close. Until Mike Goodwin posted it, I was unable to specifically pinpoint 2.10.4 SITUATION B, but I was somehow "aware" of the interpretation, possibly through my original training forty years ago, or through my service on my local board's rules training committee several years ago. Or it could have been mentioned by one of local interpreters at one, or more, of our 200 local board meetings over the past forty years. Or maybe at one of the many seminars I've attended. Maybe even here on the Forum. So that nebulous, "fuzzy" idea (not counting free throws points at the wrong basket for the non-shooting team) was in the back recesses of my mind as I pondered the need for free throws at the wrong basket to be a correctable error. Why correct it if we're never going to count the the points for the "wrong" team? I was conflicted, and confused. I was 100% certain that a team’s own basket was the one into which its players try to throw the ball, but I was "fuzzy" (but still somewhat "aware") of some type of exception. My big mistake was looking for guidance solely in the rulebook, and not including the casebook in my research. I was quite pleased when I finally came up with 4-5 (mistake by officials resulting in a team going in the wrong direction), but it still left unanswered my question regarding the need for free throws at the wrong basket to be a correctable error. After finding the 4-5 rule citation, I should have followed up with a deep dive into the casebook, but I didn't. I'm not proud of this, but I stopped reading the entire casebook annually cover to cover a few years back, now only reading it when I have a specific written rule exam question, or a specific "real game" question. Luckily Mike Goodwin came to the rescue. His citation of 2.10.4 SITUATION B was the cherry on top of the hot fudge sundae, confirming something that I was already aware of (but was unable to confirm with a citation). My question, "Is this treated as any other "wrong way" basket ... points counting for the team that "owns" the basket?", was not asked to draw any attention to me, but rather an attempt to confirm, with the help of the Forum, something that I was already aware of. It was for my own education, and possibly the education of others. Evil plan accomplished.
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"For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life." (John 3:16) “I was in prison and you came to visit me.” (Matthew 25:36) Last edited by BillyMac; Tue Jul 13, 2021 at 01:49pm. |
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Another thing, if you are going debate ad nauseum about a certain rule, you should at least read all the relevant case plays for that rule.
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A-hole formerly known as BNR |
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Relevant Case Plays ...
Unclear? Yes. Strong label, but I''ll wear it. But, at least, I was somewhat aware.
And there may be some non-official Forum "viewers" who were not familiar with the rule. Watch the numbers. We've got a lot of "viewers" out there who don't actively participate in posting. Quote:
Now that I'm retired from my day job as a chemist, I should really go back to my annual reading of the casebook from cover to cover (it was an annual ritual for me, reading the entire casebook from cover to cover before taking my annual written refresher exam). Now, when fans yell at me, "Don't quit your day job", I reply, "Too late, I already did".
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"For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life." (John 3:16) “I was in prison and you came to visit me.” (Matthew 25:36) Last edited by BillyMac; Tue Jul 13, 2021 at 10:10am. |
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A-hole formerly known as BNR |
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Confirmed ...
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"For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life." (John 3:16) “I was in prison and you came to visit me.” (Matthew 25:36) Last edited by BillyMac; Tue Jul 13, 2021 at 10:37am. |
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