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Old Mon Jan 11, 2021, 08:44pm
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Three Seconds Not One's Best Call Of The Night ...

I've watched several IAABO International and local IAABO board Zoom "webinars" that have suggested that officials should never talk/warn/encourage/coach players to avoid three second violations during live ball situations at all levels of play.

For me, this is pretty much exactly the opposite of what I learned as a rookie official forty years ago.

Comments and thoughts from IAABO and non-IAABO Forum members?

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Last edited by BillyMac; Mon Jan 11, 2021 at 08:49pm.
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Old Mon Jan 11, 2021, 10:28pm
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Just tonight I yelled “Get out!” at a player who was close. He got the message.
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Old Mon Jan 11, 2021, 10:29pm
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You have to let three-second violations find you. If you go looking for them, you’re bound to miss a lot of other far more important stuff.

That matches my current association’s expectation. A few years back, one of our junior leagues implored us to call more three-second violations, probably because all of the parents remember every third whistle being a three-second violation 30+ years ago when they played. As if the improvement in game flow since the late 1980s is some kind of mortal wound to their basketball souls!

Anyway, we gave ‘em what they asked for....and they were sorry.


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Old Mon Jan 11, 2021, 11:49pm
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I just say "Lane, lane, lane" and they get out. Just like I tell them other things that stop or avoid fouls or violations. Unless someone bigger tells us to do differently, then I am going to keep doing that. This sounds like high school purest saying this mess.

This is what I am talking about Billy.

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Old Tue Jan 12, 2021, 12:24am
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I agree with you that the philosophy has changed from thirty years ago. The current instruction is to just officiate the game and to refrain from coaching the players. It is not our role in the game to provide instruction.

I too learned under the philosophy of talking players out of violations or fouls, but have transitioned to not doing that anymore.

Today, I simply pass on calling fouls or violations which are trivial or have no impact upon the conduct of the game. So I would just ignore the three-second violation, until it was blatant or created a clear advantage for the offensive player.

The current philosophy is that we should stick to calling the game and that the players and coaches will adjust to the calls. The old verbal instruction is passé. Now it is simply blow the whistle.
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Old Tue Jan 12, 2021, 07:14am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nevadaref View Post
I agree with you that the philosophy has changed from thirty years ago. The current instruction is to just officiate the game and to refrain from coaching the players. It is not our role in the game to provide instruction.

I too learned under the philosophy of talking players out of violations or fouls, but have transitioned to not doing that anymore.

Today, I simply pass on calling fouls or violations which are trivial or have no impact upon the conduct of the game. So I would just ignore the three-second violation, until it was blatant or created a clear advantage for the offensive player.

The current philosophy is that we should stick to calling the game and that the players and coaches will adjust to the calls. The old verbal instruction is passé. Now it is simply blow the whistle.
YMMV. It is still frequently encouraged in my neck of the woods to talk players out of silly fouls and violations.
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Old Tue Jan 12, 2021, 09:24am
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Question

If one team has a great post player and great outside shooters. And the post player stays in the key causing the defense to withdraw from guarding the 3 point line providing shot after shot. Isn't that an advantage? Remember a NFHS article stating that was causing an advantage even if it didn't go to the big guy.

I found it interesting and will probably not be considered an advantage by most here. I did find it interesting.

I do agree it should only be caused if it gives an advantage. Any thoughts?
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Old Tue Jan 12, 2021, 09:50am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BigT View Post
Question

If one team has a great post player and great outside shooters. And the post player stays in the key causing the defense to withdraw from guarding the 3 point line providing shot after shot. Isn't that an advantage? Remember a NFHS article stating that was causing an advantage even if it didn't go to the big guy.

I found it interesting and will probably not be considered an advantage by most here. I did find it interesting.

I do agree it should only be caused if it gives an advantage. Any thoughts?
I guess it would be but rarely do many just sit in the lane. Heck in the game today who is using a big man as a big part of their offense? This is a drive and kick game, not a grind it out in the post game. So not much of an issue anymore. But that being said if they are taught properly, they are likely on the outskirts of the lane anyway. Part of calling this is where they are located too. I have not changed anything I have done in over 20 years from my original philosophy.

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Old Tue Jan 12, 2021, 09:58am
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Advantage/Disadvantage ...

Quote:
Originally Posted by BigT View Post
...should only be caused if it gives an advantage.
... it is important to know the intent and purpose of a rule so that it may be intelligently applied in each play situation. A player or a team should not be permitted an advantage which is not intended by a rule. Neither should play be permitted to develop which may lead to placing a player at a disadvantage not intended by a rule.

My proudest moment on the Forum was when I finally convinced Jurassic Referee that advantage/disadvantage not only applied to fouls, but also to some violations. Forum members seldom won debates with the very knowledgeable Jurassic Referee.

When a team is gaining an advantage by having a player parked in the lane for more than three seconds, I sound the whistle and call the violation immediately, with no warning.

Another example of a no warning immediate whistle three second violation for me is when a player gets the ball in the lane after being there for a few seconds, makes a move to shoot, decides not to shoot, and passes to a teammate.

On the other hand, when a player just aimlessly wanders around and has one foot, or part of a foot, in the lane, maybe after setting, or attempting to set, a screen, at the low post, or at the elbow, I almost always give a warning. However once a coach yells at me to call the violation, I may not use the warning option, observe what going on, and possibly go straight to the whistle.
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“I was in prison and you came to visit me.” (Matthew 25:36)

Last edited by BillyMac; Tue Jan 12, 2021 at 02:16pm.
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Old Tue Jan 12, 2021, 10:05am
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The Good Old Days ...

Quote:
Originally Posted by JRutledge View Post
... in the game today who is using a big man as a big part of their offense? This is a drive and kick game, not a grind it out in the post game.


Everybody pulls for David, nobody roots for Goliath.” (Wilt Chamberlain)
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"For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life." (John 3:16)

“I was in prison and you came to visit me.” (Matthew 25:36)

Last edited by BillyMac; Tue Jan 12, 2021 at 10:08am.
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Old Tue Jan 12, 2021, 10:59am
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Be Careful What You Ask For (1 Samuel 8) ...

Quote:
Originally Posted by crosscountry55 View Post
... one of our junior leagues implored us to call more three-second violations ... Anyway, we gave ‘em what they asked for... and they were sorry.
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Old Wed Jan 13, 2021, 10:37am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SC Official View Post
Just tonight I yelled “Get out!” at a player who was close. He got the message.
I never yell "Get Out" because after all they are allowed to be there
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Old Wed Jan 13, 2021, 10:49am
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Allowed ???

Quote:
Originally Posted by Indianaref View Post
... they are allowed to be there
Not if he's an offensive player, and the ball is in his team's control in his team's frontcourt, and he has been in the lane for more than three seconds, and he and is team are gaining an advantage not intended by rule, unless he is dribbling in or moving immediately to try for goal.
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"For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life." (John 3:16)

“I was in prison and you came to visit me.” (Matthew 25:36)

Last edited by BillyMac; Wed Jan 13, 2021 at 11:46am.
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Old Wed Jan 13, 2021, 11:18am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BillyMac View Post
Not if he's an offensive player, and the ball is in his team's control in his team's frontcourt, and he has been in the lane for more than three seconds, and he and is team are gaining an advantage not intended by rule, unless he is dribbling in or moving immediately to try for goal.
I don't yell anything. Only time I raise my voice so that everybody can hear it is when players are trying to stir up trouble.

If a player is in the paint too long and it has no effect on the play I will quietly say something to them one-on-one at the earliest opportunity. But a warning isn't a something that should be expected before a 3 second call can be made.

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Old Wed Jan 13, 2021, 11:45am
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Aimlessly And Clueless ...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Raymond View Post
... a warning isn't a something that should be expected before a 3 second call can be made.
Agree. Well worded.

But if a player is just aimlessly and cluelessly wandering around in the lane for three seconds, not gaining any advantage, I might give a warning to player (and hit him with a violation if he doesn't comply) to preempt a coach from "interacting" with me.
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"For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life." (John 3:16)

“I was in prison and you came to visit me.” (Matthew 25:36)

Last edited by BillyMac; Wed Jan 13, 2021 at 02:46pm.
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