Team control throwin. Foul purposes only

[Camron Rust]

Originally Posted by BillyMac

Why not make the throwin team control legal for everything (say that the thrower has player control) with no exception for backcourt? Throwins from a frontcourt sideline or endline can only be legally passed into the frontcourt. Many ignorant fans already think that that's the actual rule.

It could be a lot easier than that, and without unintended consequences. We already have a "player control foul" when there is a foul by an airborne shooter who doesn't actually have player control. Something similar could also be done for team control fouls.

In fact, we really have no need to the distinction between player control fouls and team control fouls and haven't had since they changed the penalty for team control fouls to be the same as player control fouls so many years ago. Instead, eliminate the definitions of both team control foul and player control foul and create a new foul type called "offensive" foul. You'd keep the definitions of team control and player control because they have other implications. Just change the foul definition.

I propose something like this:

"Offensive" fouls would apply when:

• the team has the ball at their disposal
• the ball is in flight during a throw-in
• the ball has been thrown until either team gains control
• team control exists
• a airborne shooter commits a foul

Where the penalty for an "offensive" foul would be not shots and possession to the offended team as is currently done for both the player control and team control fouls.

[ilyazhito]

Originally Posted by Camron Rust

It could be a lot easier than that, and without unintended consequences. We already have a "player control foul" when there is a foul by an airborne shooter who doesn't actually have player control. Something similar could also be done for team control fouls.

In fact, we really have no need to the distinction between player control fouls and team control fouls and haven't had since they changed the penalty for team control fouls to be the same as player control fouls so many years ago. Instead, eliminate the definitions of both team control foul and player control foul and create a new foul type called "offensive" foul. You'd keep the definitions of team control and player control because they have other implications. Just change the foul definition.

I propose something like this:

"Offensive" fouls would apply when:

• the team has the ball at their disposal
• the ball is in flight during a throw-in
• the ball has been thrown until either team gains control
• team control exists
• a airborne shooter commits a foul

Where the penalty for an "offensive" foul would be not shots and possession to the offended team as is currently done for both the player control and team control fouls.

I agree. The distinction between player and team control fouls is a distinction without a difference, because the penalties for both types of fouls are identical (loss of possession). The "loose-ball foul" category may fall under team control fouls (because there is no player control while the ball is loose), but some codes have distinct provisions to address those fouls (NCAAM treats loose-ball fouls as regular fouls for purposes of the bonus, and NBA has its own penalties for loose-ball fouls committed before the offended team is in the bonus, otherwise loose-ball fouls follow normal bonus rules).

Ball at disposal = control anyway, because once the ball is at a teams disposal, only that team may request and be granted timeout (for a live-ball timeout request to be honored, it must come from the team in control of the ball + player control, if the ball is inbounds).

[billyu2]

Originally Posted by Camron Rust

It could be a lot easier than that, and without unintended consequences. We already have a "player control foul" when there is a foul by an airborne shooter who doesn't actually have player control. Something similar could also be done for team control fouls.

In fact, we really have no need to the distinction between player control fouls and team control fouls and haven't had since they changed the penalty for team control fouls to be the same as player control fouls so many years ago. Instead, eliminate the definitions of both team control foul and player control foul and create a new foul type called "offensive" foul. You'd keep the definitions of team control and player control because they have other implications. Just change the foul definition.

I propose something like this:

"Offensive" fouls would apply when:

• the team has the ball at their disposal
• the ball is in flight during a throw-in
• the ball has been thrown until either team gains control
• team control exists
• a airborne shooter commits a foul

Where the penalty for an "offensive" foul would be not shots and possession to the offended team as is currently done for both the player control and team control fouls.

So, if a try or tap by Team A is in flight when a personal foul is called on any Team A player, this would be considered an "offensive" foul?

[Zoochy]

SITUATION 7: A1, in the team’s frontcourt, passes towards A2, also in the team’s frontcourt. B1 deflects the ball toward Team A’s backcourt. The ball bounces only in Team A’s frontcourt before crossing the division line. While the ball is still in the air over Team A’s backcourt, but never having touched in Team A’s backcourt, A2 gains possession of the ball while standing in Team A’s backcourt. RULING: Backcourt violation on Team A. Team A was still in team control and caused the ball to have backcourt status. Had A2 permitted the ball to bounce in the backcourt after having been deflected by B1, there would have been no backcourt violation. (4-4-1, 4-4-3, 9-9-1)

Please remember that this interp has been changed (2 years ago?). It is no longer a Back Court violation