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NFHS 4-19-7: "...A team-control foul is a common foul committed by a member of the team that has team control or by a member of the throw-in team from the start of the throw-in until player control is obtained inbounds." |
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Cherry On Top Of The Sundae ...
Nice.
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"For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life." (John 3:16) “I was in prison and you came to visit me.” (Matthew 25:36) |
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In fact, we really have no need to the distinction between player control fouls and team control fouls and haven't had since they changed the penalty for team control fouls to be the same as player control fouls so many years ago. Instead, eliminate the definitions of both team control foul and player control foul and create a new foul type called "offensive" foul. You'd keep the definitions of team control and player control because they have other implications. Just change the foul definition. I propose something like this: Where the penalty for an "offensive" foul would be not shots and possession to the offended team as is currently done for both the player control and team control fouls.
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Owner/Developer of RefTown.com Commissioner, Portland Basketball Officials Association |
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Ball at disposal = control anyway, because once the ball is at a teams disposal, only that team may request and be granted timeout (for a live-ball timeout request to be honored, it must come from the team in control of the ball + player control, if the ball is inbounds). |
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No longer Back Court Violation
SITUATION 7: A1, in the team’s frontcourt, passes towards A2, also in the team’s frontcourt. B1 deflects the ball toward Team A’s backcourt. The ball bounces only in Team A’s frontcourt before crossing the division line. While the ball is still in the air over Team A’s backcourt, but never having touched in Team A’s backcourt, A2 gains possession of the ball while standing in Team A’s backcourt. RULING: Backcourt violation on Team A. Team A was still in team control and caused the ball to have backcourt status. Had A2 permitted the ball to bounce in the backcourt after having been deflected by B1, there would have been no backcourt violation. (4-4-1, 4-4-3, 9-9-1)
Please remember that this interp has been changed (2 years ago?). It is no longer a Back Court violation |
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Is Team A in control of the ball? What would have the ruling been before 2011? ![]() |
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A-hole formerly known as BNR Last edited by Raymond; Tue Jul 14, 2020 at 07:38am. |
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Team Control Continues ...
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4-12-2: A team is in control of the ball: a. When a player of the team is in control. b. While a live ball is being passed among teammates. c. During an interrupted dribble. d. When a player of the team has disposal of the ball for a throw-in. 4-12-3: Team control continues until: a. The ball is in flight during a try or tap for goal. b. An opponent secures control. c. The ball becomes dead.
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"For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life." (John 3:16) “I was in prison and you came to visit me.” (Matthew 25:36) |
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A-hole formerly known as BNR |
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It sounds like we are jumbling up multiple things into this conversation. Isn't this about how to apply team control for foul purposes? The rule on that is very clear. How we adjudicate some violations with team control can be another issue all together. Maybe I just have not read everything in detail, but it sounds like there are things being discussed that have nothing to do with fouls.
Peace
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Let us get into "Good Trouble." ----------------------------------------------------------- Charles Michael “Mick” Chambers (1947-2010) |
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The previous rule read: "Neither a team nor any player is ever in control during a dead ball, or during a jump ball or throw-in or when the ball is in flight during a try for goal. In your question, the touching ends the throw-in but neither team has control. The inadvertent whistle would result in an AP throw-in. If the IW occurred prior to touching, the throw-in would not have ended and the point of interruption would be a new throw-in for Team A. Keep in mind the new rule in my opinion does nothing to change that since team control by the throw-in team specifically applies only to a foul committed by the throw in team. We were emphatically told that all previous rulings on throw-in situations remain the same.
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A-hole formerly known as BNR |
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Inadvertent Whistle ...
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2011-12 Basketball Rules Changes Several definitions were changed to reflect that team control will now exist during a throw-in when the thrower-in has the ball at his/her disposal. The change primarily affects how foul penalties will be administered. Definitions within Rules 4-12-1, 4-12-2 and 4-12-6 were changed to reflect that team control will now exist during a throw-in once the thrower-in has the ball at his or her disposal. The new rule will no longer grant free throws to the defending team in the bonus if the throw-in team commits a foul. Team Control During A Throw-In (4-12-1, 2, 6): Several definitions were changed to reflect that team control will now exist during a throw-in when the thrower-in has the ball at his/her disposal. The change primarily affects how foul penalties will be administered. By changing the definition of player and team control to include a throw-in, greater consistency in penalty administration for a common foul is achieved. Under the previous rule, because there was no team control during a throw-in, the penalty for a common foul committed by the throw-in team after the throw-in had begun resulted in free throws if the offended team was in the bonus, which was inconsistent with the penalty for a team-control foul in non-throw-in situations. The rules change will result in greater consistency in penalty enforcement and expedite the contest by eliminating the delay inherent with administering free throws. 2014-15 Points Of Emphasis Team Control Status During Throw-in. Team Control Status Inbounds - Since a 2011-12 rules change, team control exists during a throw-in when the thrower-in has the ball at her/his disposal. The change was made only to eliminate the penalty of administering free throw(s) when a teammate of the thrower-in commits a common foul during the throw-in. The change made the penalty consistent with the penalty for other team control fouls. The penalty now is the awarding of a throw-in to the opposing team at the spot out-of-bounds nearest to where the foul occurred. Basketball Points of Emphasis - 2017-18 Team control, throw-in. The relevance of team control during a throw-in only applies when a member of the throw- in team fouls. Such fouls shall be ruled team control fouls. Team control during a throw-in is NOT intended to be the same as player control/team control inbounds. Team control inbounds is established when a player from either team who has inbound status gains control of the ball. During the throw-in, 10-seconds, 3-seconds, frontcourt status, backcourt status, closely guarded, etc., are NOT factors as there has yet to be player control/team control obtained inbounds. But we're still stuck with these definitions. 4-12-2: A team is in control of the ball: a. When a player of the team is in control. b. While a live ball is being passed among teammates. c. During an interrupted dribble. d. When a player of the team has disposal of the ball for a throw-in. 4-12-3: Team control continues until: a. The ball is in flight during a try or tap for goal. b. An opponent secures control. c. The ball becomes dead. 4-12-4: While the ball remains live a loose ball always remains in control of the team whose player last had control, unless it is a try or tap for goal. 4-42-5: The throw-in ends when: a. The passed ball touches or is touched by another player inbounds. b. The passed ball touches or is touched by another player out-of-bounds, except as in 7-5-7. c. The throw-in team commits a throw-in violation. 4-19-7: A team-control foul is a common foul committed by a member of the team that has team control or by a member of the throw-in team from the start of the throw-in until player control is obtained inbounds.
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"For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life." (John 3:16) “I was in prison and you came to visit me.” (Matthew 25:36) Last edited by BillyMac; Wed Jul 15, 2020 at 12:52pm. |
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I seem to recall discussing this at length in another thread. The Team Control stuff during a TI only applied to fouls and had nothing to do with IW. In the IW case, once, the throw-in is touched (meaning it ended), one would go to the AP arrow for an IW. My memory could be off though.
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If some rules are never enforced, then why do they exist? ![]() |
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