The Official Forum  

Go Back   The Official Forum > Basketball

Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Rate Thread Display Modes
  #1 (permalink)  
Old Fri Jan 10, 2020, 10:53am
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2015
Location: Indiana
Posts: 154
Purdue v Michigan - Travel Missed?

Michigan player Xavier Simpson receives a pass with both feet on the floor...he then takes a small "hop" where both feet hit the floor at the same time, then raises to take shot...releases the ball and returns to the floor.

No call was made by the C....did they get it right or kick it? I'm trying to understand it. Either foot can be the pivot foot...I want to say they kicked this?

Thoughts...

http://www.espn.com/video/clip?id=28455496

Edit to put up ESPN video

Last edited by RefsNCoaches; Fri Jan 10, 2020 at 11:10am.
Reply With Quote
  #2 (permalink)  
Old Fri Jan 10, 2020, 11:32am
Esteemed Forum Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Connecticut
Posts: 18,106
The Bunny Hop (The Ray Anthony Orchestra, 1952) ...

Quote:
Originally Posted by RefsNCoaches View Post
... receives a pass with both feet on the floor...he then takes a small "hop" where both feet hit the floor at the same time, then raises to take shot...releases the ball and returns to the floor.
I had the exact play yesterday. Of course my game wasn't on national television but was a middle school girls game. A grandmother was recording the game on her cell phone but she wouldn't let me use the video on the Forum (she hit me with her purse). Girl receives a pass on the wing, outside the three point arc, with both feet on the floor. She takes a bunny hop forward a few inches, both feet simultaneously coming off the floor, both feet coming back down simultaneously to contact the floor, still outside the three point arc, and shoots the ball. I sounded my whistle for a travel and sure enough the ball goes in. Wiped off the basket. Coach wasn't too happy with me. Was I wrong?
__________________
"For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life." (John 3:16)

“I was in prison and you came to visit me.” (Matthew 25:36)

Last edited by BillyMac; Sat Jan 11, 2020 at 10:16am.
Reply With Quote
  #3 (permalink)  
Old Fri Jan 10, 2020, 11:39am
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2015
Location: Indiana
Posts: 154
Quote:
Originally Posted by BillyMac View Post
I had the exact play yesterday. Of course my game wasn't on national television but was a middle school girls game. Girl receives a pass on the wing, outside the three point arc, with both feet on the floor. She takes a bunny hop forward a few inches, both feet simultaneously coming off the floor, both feet coming back down simultaneously to contact the floor, and shoots the ball. I sounded my whistle for a travel and sure enough the ball goes in. Wiped off the basket. Coach wan't too happy with me. Was I wrong?

Billy...I don't think you're wrong in your call...I would call it as well...

This is why I posted it...I may be over thinking it based on the fact that catching the ball with both feet, either may become the pivot foot. I'm sure there is more specific wording in the rule book (that I don't have in front of me at work) pertaining to moving both feet......With that said, this is the classic old school playground rule "up and down"

I'm trying to find rationale for NOT calling it (as the C official in that game passed on it) but without rule or case book in front of me, along with massive head cold that has me looped up on cold meds...I may just be off my rocker today.
Reply With Quote
  #4 (permalink)  
Old Fri Jan 10, 2020, 11:43am
Esteemed Forum Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Connecticut
Posts: 18,106
Actually, It's Up 'N Down ...

Quote:
Originally Posted by RefsNCoaches View Post
"up and down"
Signal chart citation please.
__________________
"For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life." (John 3:16)

“I was in prison and you came to visit me.” (Matthew 25:36)

Last edited by BillyMac; Fri Jan 10, 2020 at 11:46am.
Reply With Quote
  #5 (permalink)  
Old Fri Jan 10, 2020, 11:49am
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2017
Posts: 257
Yes it is a travel. Also I believe that exact play (bunny hop) is a POE.
Reply With Quote
  #6 (permalink)  
Old Fri Jan 10, 2020, 11:50am
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2015
Location: Indiana
Posts: 154
Quote:
Originally Posted by BillyMac View Post
Signal chart citation please.
HAHAHA...Maybe you missed my qualifier...PLAYGROUND...

Reminds me of Marques Johnson's line in White Men Can't Jump...."I'mma go to my car....get my gun...and shoot all you M***** F****!"
Reply With Quote
  #7 (permalink)  
Old Fri Jan 10, 2020, 01:26pm
Esteemed Forum Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Connecticut
Posts: 18,106
Do The Bunny Hop, Hop, Hop, Hop ...

Quote:
Originally Posted by sdoebler View Post
... (bunny hop) is a POE.
NFHS Basketball 2009-10 Points Of Emphasis
Traveling.
The traveling rule has not changed; however, the committee is still concerned that the rule is not being properly enforced. Consequently, offensive players are gaining a tremendous advantage. Areas of specific concern are: the spin move, the step-through move, the jump stop, perimeter shooters taking an extra “hop” prior to releasing the try and ball handlers lifting the pivot foot prior to releasing the ball on the dribble. The key to determining the legality of those moves is to first find the pivot foot. Then, if the player moves a foot or the feet in any direction in excess of prescribed limits, a traveling violation has occurred. Officials must know the rule, find the pivot foot and improve call accuracy; coaches must demand that players execute this skill properly, especially in practice; players must continue to develop this basic skill and practice performing legal moves.
Guidelines for Teaching and Officiating
A. Determine the pivot foot immediately.
B. At the start of the dribble, the ball must be released before the pivot foot is lifted.
C. After the dribble has ended, the player may lift pivot foot, but must release the ball on a pass or shot before the pivot foot returns to floor.
D. A player may never take two steps while in possession of the ball.

__________________
"For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life." (John 3:16)

“I was in prison and you came to visit me.” (Matthew 25:36)
Reply With Quote
  #8 (permalink)  
Old Fri Jan 10, 2020, 02:07pm
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: SLC Utah
Posts: 537
Bunny Hop isnt called in this state at any level. Most travels are not called in this state. Very few call the extra step that allows the offensive player to get past good defense.

His bunny hop helped the defense get closer and block the shot. It only hurts the shooter and gives them no advantage. I am not going to be that guy cuz in Rome they do not call it. I am ok not calling it. If they jump to the left or right to avoid a defender thats the easiest call in the world to make. If we are telling ourselves that we call every travel we see by rule every game every night.. Id like the game film.

If also bet if you watched the entire game or other college games you would see this is passed on a lot more than it is called.

Just my two cents.

I love this forum.
__________________
BigT "The rookie"
Reply With Quote
  #9 (permalink)  
Old Fri Jan 10, 2020, 02:37pm
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: St. Louis, Missouri
Posts: 724
Rocky Horror

Let's do the Time Warp again.
At one time it was a violation. Not any more????
Are we now following the Rule, if it is a smooth athletic move then it must be legal?
Reply With Quote
  #10 (permalink)  
Old Fri Jan 10, 2020, 03:04pm
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2015
Location: Indiana
Posts: 154
Quote:
Originally Posted by BillyMac View Post
NFHS Basketball 2009-10 Points Of Emphasis
Traveling.
The traveling rule has not changed; however, the committee is still concerned that the rule is not being properly enforced. Consequently, offensive players are gaining a tremendous advantage. Areas of specific concern are: the spin move, the step-through move, the jump stop, [B][COLOR="Red"]perimeter shooters taking an extra “hop” prior to releasing the try and ball handlers lifting the pivot foot prior to releasing the ball on the dribble. The key to determining the legality of those moves is to first find the pivot foot. Then, if the player moves a foot or the feet in any direction in excess of prescribed limits, a traveling violation has occurred. Officials must know the rule, find the pivot foot and improve call accuracy; coaches must demand that players execute this skill properly, especially in practice; players must continue to develop this basic skill and practice performing legal moves.
Guidelines for Teaching and Officiating
A. Determine the pivot foot immediately.
B. At the start of the dribble, the ball must be released before the pivot foot is lifted.
C. After the dribble has ended, the player may lift pivot foot, but must release the ball on a pass or shot before the pivot foot returns to floor.
D. A player may never take two steps while in possession of the ball.


Playing devils advocate...
Reply With Quote
  #11 (permalink)  
Old Fri Jan 10, 2020, 03:34pm
Courageous When Prudent
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Hampton Roads, VA
Posts: 13,504
Technically, a bunny hop is no different than a jump shooter who never releases the try and comes back down to the court with the ball.
__________________
A-hole formerly known as BNR

Last edited by Raymond; Fri Jan 10, 2020 at 04:46pm.
Reply With Quote
  #12 (permalink)  
Old Fri Jan 10, 2020, 03:55pm
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2015
Location: Indiana
Posts: 154
Quote:
Originally Posted by Raymond View Post
Technically, a bunny hop is no different that a jump shooter who never releases the try and comes back down to the court with the ball.
I know...I'm picking at the wording of the rule at this point.
I had some guys at work going because I am a Michigan fan and they are IU guys....I keyed in on/argued about establishing a pivot foot to determine travel and got them thinking

Technically, I guess 44-1 where it says A Player who catches the ball with both feet on the floor may pivot using either foot. When one foot is lifted, the other is the pivot.

44-4 does say one or both may be lifted but not returned to the floor before ball is released....but it also is preceded by After coming to stop and neither foot can be a pivot
Reply With Quote
  #13 (permalink)  
Old Fri Jan 10, 2020, 04:25pm
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Aug 1999
Location: In the offseason.
Posts: 11,825
Quote:
Originally Posted by RefsNCoaches View Post
I know...I'm picking at the wording of the rule at this point.
I had some guys at work going because I am a Michigan fan and they are IU guys....I keyed in on/argued about establishing a pivot foot to determine travel and got them thinking

Technically, I guess 44-1 where it says A Player who catches the ball with both feet on the floor may pivot using either foot. When one foot is lifted, the other is the pivot.

44-4 does say one or both may be lifted but not returned to the floor before ball is released....but it also is preceded by After coming to stop and neither foot can be a pivot
The beginning of 4-44 establishes that foot movement, while holding the ball, outside the prescribed limits is a travel. If a player does something with his/her feet while holding the ball that is not described, it is, by definition, a travel.
__________________
Owner/Developer of RefTown.com
Reply With Quote
  #14 (permalink)  
Old Sat Jan 11, 2020, 10:36am
Esteemed Forum Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Connecticut
Posts: 18,106
Why Not ???

Quote:
Originally Posted by BigT View Post
Bunny Hop isn't called in this state at any level.


By official interpretation (by interpreters, assigners, evaluators, trainers, camp clinicians, trained observers, etc.)?

Is this how your rookies are trained?

Is this how you answer questions on written exams?

Or by younger officials who have observed veteran officials who have observed older veteran officials, etc., making the same call incorrectly over and over and over again?

Quote:
Originally Posted by BigT View Post
... gives them no advantage.
If it didn't give an advantage, they wouldn't do it.

The extra step allows the shooter to get his timing and balance down and allows him to more comfortably make the shot.

Maybe the shooter believes that the closer (even a little) one is to the basket, the higher one's shooting percentage is going to be.

Maybe the shooter believes that the extra forward momentum gives a little more distance to his shot, making it easier to reach the basket?

These are all advantages that are definitely not intended by rule.

Maybe he expected to release the ball before he landed and made a mistake, creating a violation?

Maybe he mistakenly thought he caught the ball while airborne, creating a violation?

That's my story and I'm sticking to it.

Now could somebody please help me down from this soapbox, I'm getting dizzy up here.

And of course, as usual for any basketball rules interpretation, mechanic, etc., when in Rome (or Salt Lake City) ...
__________________
"For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life." (John 3:16)

“I was in prison and you came to visit me.” (Matthew 25:36)

Last edited by BillyMac; Sat Jan 11, 2020 at 02:48pm.
Reply With Quote
  #15 (permalink)  
Old Sat Jan 11, 2020, 02:54pm
Esteemed Forum Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Connecticut
Posts: 18,106
When I See It, I Call It ...

Quote:
Originally Posted by BigT View Post
If we are telling ourselves that we call every travel we see by rule every game every night ...
I do. If I see it, I call it.

Every game. Every night. Consistently. Never ignore. Never pass. Never consider advantage/disadvantage on a travel.

Sometimes I make a mistake by calling it.

Sometimes I make a mistake by not calling it.

But when I see it, I call it.

And when I don't see it, I don't call it.

If I'm unsure, I don't call it.
__________________
"For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life." (John 3:16)

“I was in prison and you came to visit me.” (Matthew 25:36)

Last edited by BillyMac; Sat Jan 11, 2020 at 04:19pm.
Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools
Display Modes Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Goaltending: Michigan v Purdue Nevadaref Basketball 13 Sun Mar 13, 2016 01:44am
Michigan State vs Purdue stiffler3492 Basketball 12 Sat Jan 05, 2013 11:28pm
Michigan Purdue game officials big jake Football 1 Sat Oct 06, 2012 03:59pm
Purdue @ Michigan, R2 Scrapper1 Volleyball 2 Sun Oct 12, 2008 07:33pm
Purdue/Michigan game jcarter Basketball 2 Thu Feb 08, 2007 01:55pm


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 12:38am.



Search Engine Friendly URLs by vBSEO 3.3.0 RC1