Throw-in NFHS

[rwodar]

Originally Posted by BillyMac

Since the "team control foul" period on a throwin ends when player control is obtained inbounds, and since player control had not been established inbounds, then there would be no free throws.



4-19-7: A team-control foul is a common foul committed by a member

of the team that has team control or by a member of the throw-in team from

the start of the throw-in until player control is obtained inbounds.

Regardless of the explanation of why this is a team control foul your initial statement about not starting the 10second count until player control is obtained is incorrect.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[billyu2]

[QUOTE=rwodar;1035010]Regardless of the explanation of why this is a team control foul your initial statement about not starting the 10second count until player control is obtained is incorrect.

It is not incorrect. The Case Play that was cited 4.12.2b specifically tell us on a deflected throw in pass there can be no 3 second violation, no over/back violation and a 10 count cannot be started until the player gains control. Again, team control on throw in plays only applies to fouls committed by the throw in team. Please give us a specific citation from the RB, CB or Officials Manual that says the official should start the count when the throw in pass is touched/deflected.

[rwodar]

[QUOTE=billyu2;1035011]

Originally Posted by rwodar

Regardless of the explanation of why this is a team control foul your initial statement about not starting the 10second count until player control is obtained is incorrect.

It is not incorrect. The Case Play that was cited 4.12.2b specifically tell us on a deflected throw in pass there can be no 3 second violation, no over/back violation and a 10 count cannot be started until the player gains control. Again, team control on throw in plays only applies to fouls committed by the throw in team. Please give us a specific citation from the RB, CB or Officials Manual that says the official should start the count when the throw in pass is touched/deflected.

4.12.2b doesn’t quite make sense to me... in the situation they say team a is inbounding in the backcourt but then also say that the ball “crosses the division line” implying when A3 gains control it would be in the from court...THEN in the ruling they say “the backcourt count does not start until A3 gains control in the backcourt..? The ruling contradicts the situation.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[billyu2]

[QUOTE=rwodar;1035013]

Originally Posted by billyu2

4.12.2b doesn’t quite make sense to me... in the situation they say team a is inbounding in the backcourt but then also say that the ball “crosses the division line” implying when A3 gains control it would be in the from court...THEN in the ruling they say “the backcourt count does not start until A3 gains control in the backcourt..? The ruling contradicts the situation.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

The Case Play starts with an end line throw in by Team A at the basket they are attempting to score at. The deflected pass then goes into Team A's back court. The spot of the throw in doesn't matter since all throw ins originate out of bounds any deflected throw in to that team's back court would still not require a ten count to start until a player from that team gained control of the ball.

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by rwodar

Regardless of the explanation of why this is a team control foul your initial statement about not starting the 10second count until player control is obtained is incorrect.

Basketball Points of Emphasis - 2017-18
2. Team control, throw-in ...Team control during a throw-in is NOT intended to be the same as player control/team control inbounds. Team control inbounds is established when a player from either team who has inbound status gains control of the ball. During the throw-in, 10-seconds, 3-seconds, frontcourt status, backcourt status, closely guarded, etc., are NOT factors as there has yet to be player control/team control obtained inbounds.

NFHS 9-8: A player shall not be, nor may his/her team be, in continuous control of the ball which is in his/her backcourt for 10 seconds.

NFHS 4-12: CONTROL, PLAYER AND TEAM
ART. 1 A player is in control of the ball when he/she is holding or -
dribbling a live ball.

[Camron Rust]

Just to add another voice to the many correct once, since someone doesn't want to believe it...

* Team control for fouls begins when the thrower has the ball.

* Team control for ALL other purposes begins when a player inbounds established layer control.

Both forms of team control end in the same way: dead ball, other team gains control, or a try is released.

This rule really needs to be rewritten. I may take that challenge on now.

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by Camron Rust

This rule really needs to be rewritten.

Originally Posted by BillyMac

Basketball Points of Emphasis - 2017-18
2. Team control, throw-in. The relevance of team control during a throw-in only applies when a member of the throw- in team fouls. Such fouls shall be ruled team control fouls. Team control during a throw-in is NOT intended to be the same as player control/team control inbounds. Team control inbounds is established when a player from either team who has inbound status gains control of the ball. During the throw-in, 10-seconds, 3-seconds, frontcourt status, backcourt status, closely guarded, etc., are NOT factors as there has yet to be player control/team control obtained inbounds.

Is team control during a throwin a two year old Point of Emphasis that rookie officials would only fully and truly understand by the oral traditions of old, grizzled, veteran officials sitting around a campfire eating beans, passing gas, and telling scary stories about ancient Points of Emphasis to young'uns?