backcourt violation?

[Raymond]

Originally Posted by BillyMac

Because player control doesn't appear to be part of the backcourt rule.

So if I'm holding the ball in the front court I can step on the division line? (Based on you totally overthinking the rule, you are saying that a player can legally do this)

How is that any different than stepping on the division line while dribbling the ball in the front court.

To quote another post: 4-12-1: A player is in control of the ball when he/she is holding or dribbling a live ball.

[Raymond]

I'll sit here and wait while you explain why a player with FC status holding the ball is any different than a player with FC status dribbling the ball or how 9-9-1 doesn't apply.

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by Raymond

I'll sit here and wait while you explain why a player with FC status holding the ball is any different than a player with FC status dribbling the ball ...

Because while both have player control, one is holding the ball, and one is dribbling the ball. And player control is not written into the backcourt rule.

[Raymond]

Originally Posted by BillyMac

Because while both have player control, one is holding the ball, and one is dribbling the ball. And player control is not written into the backcourt rule.

Based on your new interpretation of the BC rule, a player who is dribbling while having FC status can step into the backcourt between each bat of the ball.

Cool interp Bro.

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by Raymond

What part of 9-9-1 doesn't apply? I'm waiting.

Doesn't apply to what? Sorry, not sure I understand your question other than to restate that player control is not written into the backcourt rule.

[Raymond]

Originally Posted by BillyMac

Doesn't apply to what? Sorry, not sure I understand your question other than to restate that player control is not written into the backcourt rule.

What part of player who is dribbling the ball and steps into the back court doesn't meet the requirements of 9-9-1?

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by Raymond

So if I'm holding the ball in the front court I can step on the division line? (Based on you totally overthinking the rule, you are saying that a player can legally do this)

Never said that.

9-9-1: Backcourt: A player shall not be the first to touch the ball after it has been in team control in the frontcourt, if he/she or a teammate last touched or was touched by the ball in the frontcourt before it went to the backcourt.

[Raymond]

Originally Posted by BillyMac

Never said that.

9-9-1: Backcourt: A player shall not be the first to touch the ball after it has been in team control in the frontcourt, if he/she or a teammate last touched or was touched by the ball in the frontcourt before it went to the backcourt.

What part of 9-9-1 doesn't apply to a player who is dribbling as opposed to a player holding the ball? 4-12-1 tells us there is no difference as to the ball's status. You even posted it yourself. So, as usual, you are arguing with yourself and making contradictory assertions.

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by Raymond

4-12-1 tells us there is no difference as to the ball's status.

The ball's status as in player control? Yes. But player control isn't mentioned in the backcourt rule (as written).

We need something additional to complete the interpretation, 4-4-1, or 9-3-1-Note, or purpose and intent.

I'll settle for purpose and intent, but would prefer 4-4-1, or 9-3-1-Note.

[Raymond]

Originally Posted by BillyMac

The ball's status as in player control? Yes. But player control isn't mentioned in the backcourt rule (as written).

We need something additional to complete the interpretation, 4-4-1, or 9-3-1-Note, or purpose and intent.

I'll settle for purpose and intent, but would prefer 4-4-1, or 9-3-1-Note.

4-4-1 is written to give the ball FC/BC status while in contact with a player who doesn't have PC. Irrelevant to this conversation.

9-9-1 is all that is needed.

A player who is dribbling is contact with the ball by RULEBOOK definition. Leave the Webster definition out of the conversation.

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by Raymond

9-9-1 is all that is needed.

9-9-1: Backcourt: A player shall not be the first to touch the ball after it has been in team control in the frontcourt, if he/she or a teammate last touched or was touched by the ball in the frontcourt before it went to the backcourt.

A player shall not be the first to touch the ball after ...

The ball has to be touched.

Not dribbled (which often doesn't involve touching).

Not player control (which often involves dribbling).

9-3-1-Note is great (a player shall not cause the ball to go out of bounds. The dribbler has committed a violation if he/she steps on or outside a boundary, even though he/she is not touching the ball while he/she is out of bounds) but while it mentions boundary lines (like the division line) it also specifically mentions out of bounds violations.

Purpose and intent?

[Raymond]

Originally Posted by BillyMac

9-9-1: Backcourt: A player shall not be the first to touch the ball after it has been in team control in the frontcourt, if he/she or a teammate last touched or was touched by the ball in the frontcourt before it went to the backcourt.

A player shall not be the first to touch the ball after ...

The ball has to be touched.

Not dribbled (which often doesn't involve touching).

Not player control (which often involves dribbling).

9-3-1-Note is great (a player shall not cause the ball to go out of bounds. The dribbler has committed a violation if he/she steps on or outside a boundary, even though he/she is not touching the ball while he/she is out of bounds) but while it mentions boundary lines (like the division line) it also specifically mentions out of bounds violations.

Purpose and intent?

4-12-1 tells us there is no difference between holding and dribbling. You cited it then ignored it. TYPICAL

Like I said, in your games a player can dribble while jumping back forth over the division line.

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by Raymond

Leave the Webster definition out of the conversation.

I believe that all my definitions have been NFHS definitions.