backcourt violation?

[bucky]

Originally Posted by BillyMac

Here's the explicit qualifying statement, the ending statement of the original post's description the situation: "but the ball touches the floor on the dribble in the backcourt". That's how the description ends.

Are you saying that me stating that he ball has to return to the hand for this to be a violation is not a valid point to make in situations (written test, or real life game) like this?

I will say it regarding situations like this.

You quoted it as "the ball touches the floor on the dribble in the backcourt."

"On the dribble" is the key phrase for me. If it did not return to the hand, then it would not be a dribble. To me that sounds far more logical than your point.

Love you BM.

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by bucky

"On the dribble" is the key phrase for me. If it did not return to the hand, then it would not be a dribble.

Not going to quibble about the wording (yes, it could have been the start of an interrupted dribble), but bottom line, my point is a valid point and is not incorrect. Two thought it wasn't backcourt, many didn't, can we move on to Situation #2, which can lead to an interesting discussion.

https://forum.officiating.com/basket...ml#post1032772

[Raymond]

Originally Posted by BillyMac

Not going to quibble about the wording (yes, it could have been the start of an interrupted dribble)...

It's not an interrupted dribble until the ball contacts somebody's body part other than either of the dribbler's hands.

Originally Posted by BillyMac

.. Situation #2, which can lead to an interesting discussion.

https://forum.officiating.com/basket...ml#post1032772

The only way this is a confusing situation is if you believe the player is no longer in PC during a dribble when the ball is not in contact with his hand.

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by Raymond

The only way this is a confusing situation is if you believe the player is no longer in PC during a dribble when the ball is not in contact with his hand.

At first, I really liked the reference to player control as a simple way of answering my question.

But there's not a lot about player control in the backcourt rule (some, but not a lot that may be relevant), but there is a little bit more about touching in the rule.

Note: This is the commonly accepted Forum definition, not the NFHS definition:

The four elements for having a backcourt violation are: there must be team control (and initial player control
when coming from a throw-in); the ball must have achieved frontcourt status; the team in team control must
be the last to touch the ball before it goes into the backcourt; that same team must be the first to touch after
the ball has been in the backcourt.

NFHS 9-9-1: Backcourt: A player shall not be the first to touch the ball after it has been
in team control in the frontcourt, if he/she or a teammate last touched or
was touched by the ball in the frontcourt before it went to the backcourt.

I think that I possibly found a better citation:

4-4-1: A ball which is in contact with a player or with the court is in the backcourt if either the ball or the player (either player if the ball is touching more than one) is touching the backcourt.

It states "or", not "and", so while 9-3-1-Note may only apply to out of bounds, not backcourt, 4-4-1 does most certainly apply to backcourt, so a dribbling player does not have to have his hand in contact with the ball for a backcourt violation to be called in Situation #2.

I never check for the hand in contact with the ball when a dribbler touches the division line with his foot in this situation, I just sound my whistle for the backcourt violation and move on. Been doing it that way for almost forty years, thinking I was doing it because of 9-3-1-Note, or purpose and intent. I guess that my interpretation, that I believe to be correct, is based on 4-4-1, not the other citations.

I'm not 100% sure, so would appreciate further discussion (with citations).

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by Raymond

It's not an interrupted dribble until the ball contacts somebody's body part other than either of the dribbler's hands.

Certainly one way to end up with an interrupted dribble, but not the only way.

4-15-5: An interrupted dribble occurs when the ball is loose after deflecting off the dribbler or after it momentarily gets away from the
dribbler. There is no player control during an interrupted dribble.

[Raymond]

Originally Posted by BillyMac

Certainly one way to end up with an interrupted dribble, but not the only way.



4-15-5: An interrupted dribble occurs when the ball is loose after deflecting off the dribbler or after it momentarily gets away from the

dribbler. There is no player control during an interrupted dribble.

I know the definition of ian nterrupted dribble. I don't see what your point is.

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[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by Raymond

I know the definition of an interrupted dribble. I don't see what your point is.

I'm sure that you do, just wanted to clean your post up a little so others know that there are other ways for a dribble to become interrupted without necessarily contacting a player's body part other than his hands. Other examples include the ball deflecting (uncontrolled) off of his hands (judgment call), or the ball momentarily getting away from him.