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  #31 (permalink)  
Old Sat Mar 30, 2019, 10:34pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AremRed View Post
... I didnít see any of the refs come over to the table and explain ó does anyone know if they did?
They did, and you could hear the explanation to the broadcast team straight from the horse's mouth. Audio clear as day on TV. A flagrant 1 for contact with the thrower.

And then the thrower did not attempt the FTs
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  #32 (permalink)  
Old Sun Mar 31, 2019, 12:29am
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If he was blocked out lead should be over there to help with how much was going on.


According to the ESPN play by play it was ruled a Technical. Either way they administered it incorrect.
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  #33 (permalink)  
Old Sun Mar 31, 2019, 12:32am
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He may be one of the top officials. But by the looks of his head he's ball watching. But you should know where to look and what to look for. Goes back to the GU vs UNC Championship game when his hand was OOB. This stuff should be a huge point of emphasis in training so they quit missing the biggest calls of the game.
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  #34 (permalink)  
Old Sun Mar 31, 2019, 12:54am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fuelrider View Post
He may be one of the top officials. But by the looks of his head he's ball watching. But you should know where to look and what to look for. Goes back to the GU vs UNC Championship game when his hand was OOB. This stuff should be a huge point of emphasis in training so they quit missing the biggest calls of the game.
I donít understand why people are saying that the T was ballwatching on this play. It was outside the 3pt line. It was his play. He was looking up at a blocked shot by two tall players. That is exactly what he was supposed to be doing.

I believe that when the shot-blocker continued past the shooter in the corner, but towards the end line side, that put the shooterís body between this player attempting to save the ball and the Trail. He may not have been able to see his foot step out.

Another possibility is that the follow up action of the save came so quickly after the blocked shot that the Trail was still focused on looking up high for contact and concerned with landing the shooter that he couldnít shift his viewpoint to where the defender placed a foot upon coming down and quickly jumping again. This quick 1-2 sequence simply resulted in him not being able to observe all of the necessary factors and he missed the call.
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  #35 (permalink)  
Old Sun Mar 31, 2019, 12:57am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ODog View Post
They did, and you could hear the explanation to the broadcast team straight from the horse's mouth. Audio clear as day on TV. A flagrant 1 for contact with the thrower.

And then the thrower did not attempt the FTs
That's what I thought. Strange that even with an alternate watching the tape they got it wrong. In my mind this is a bigger miss than the foot on the line.

In case anyone is curious it was a 3 point game at the time of the F1 foul and here's difference in FT shooter:

Supposed to shoot: Matt Mooney, 76.5% on 2.3 attempts/game this season

Actually shot: Davide Moretti, 92.1% on 2.9 attempts/game this season

Fun but irrelevant fact: Davide Moretti was #2 in all of college basketball this season in FT%.
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  #36 (permalink)  
Old Sun Mar 31, 2019, 02:56am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AremRed View Post
That's what I thought. Strange that even with an alternate watching the tape they got it wrong. In my mind this is a bigger miss than the foot on the line.

In case anyone is curious it was a 3 point game at the time of the F1 foul and here's difference in FT shooter:

Supposed to shoot: Matt Mooney, 76.5% on 2.3 attempts/game this season

Actually shot: Davide Moretti, 92.1% on 2.9 attempts/game this season


Yes, this miss will probably cost all of them an advancement.

First, it should have been an F1, not a T, with the thrower shooting. But even if you go with the T, thinking the ball was hit instead of the arm, it was administered incorrectly.

And I would not put this on the player. This is probably the first time in their playing careers that this has happened. They shouldn't be expected to know who is supposed to shoot on this. It is entirely possible that they thought it was a T and sent their best player to shoot what they thought was a T.

Quote:
Originally Posted by AremRed View Post
Fun but irrelevant fact: Davide Moretti was #2 in all of college basketball this season in FT%.
While acknowledging your point, that is not entirely accurate. I do see the same NCAA stats that you're probably looking at showing that, but it is incorrect. The #1 player on the list is listed at 92.4% on 73 of 79. Tyler Herro of Kentucky is at 93.5% on 87 for 93 and isn't even on the list. (Tyler Herro Stats, News, Bio | ESPN)

The NCAA list is missing some data.
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Last edited by Camron Rust; Sun Mar 31, 2019 at 03:27am.
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  #37 (permalink)  
Old Sun Mar 31, 2019, 08:48am
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I saw the aftermath in the studio and the rules analyst Gene said to the rest of the panel, mostly former college/NBA players, that after the block and coming down out of bounds, that player would need to get BOTH feet back in bounds before he could again touch the ball. Everyone agreed. But that isn't the rule, right? He just needs to get one foot back in, or any part of his body for that matter (knee, elbow?), as long as no part of the rest of his body was still out of bounds.

Right??? It seems like this is a rule that MANY in the game misunderstood, that you need to get both feet back in, not just one. I just want to make sure I'm not missing anything new, thanks,

I would also agree with the person above that pointed out that Higgins would have been looking high, watching for arm then body contact, seeing the shooter to the ground, and the immediate switch to the need to see where the blocker landed is a tough transition in the mind. At the point he even realizes what the defender may be able to accomplish, that defender is airborne and it's too late. And lead may very well not be looking out there, instead watching for activity underneath. just a tough circumstance.
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  #38 (permalink)  
Old Sun Mar 31, 2019, 09:09am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Camron Rust View Post
While acknowledging your point, that is not entirely accurate. I do see the same NCAA stats that you're probably looking at showing that, but it is incorrect. The #1 player on the list is listed at 92.4% on 73 of 79. Tyler Herro of Kentucky is at 93.5% on 87 for 93 and isn't even on the list. (Tyler Herro Stats, News, Bio | ESPN)

The NCAA list is missing some data.
Whatever dude I used this list: 2018-19 NCAA Division I College Basketball Player Statistics - ESPN

It does have Moretti as #2 on the season at .933, I transcribed it incorrectly in my first post.
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  #39 (permalink)  
Old Sun Mar 31, 2019, 12:02pm
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Originally Posted by Nevadaref View Post
I donít understand why people are saying that the T was ballwatching on this play. It was outside the 3pt line. It was his play. He was looking up at a blocked shot by two tall players. That is exactly what he was supposed to be doing.

I believe that when the shot-blocker continued past the shooter in the corner, but towards the end line side, that put the shooterís body between this player attempting to save the ball and the Trail. He may not have been able to see his foot step out.

Another possibility is that the follow up action of the save came so quickly after the blocked shot that the Trail was still focused on looking up high for contact and concerned with landing the shooter that he couldnít shift his viewpoint to where the defender placed a foot upon coming down and quickly jumping again. This quick 1-2 sequence simply resulted in him not being able to observe all of the necessary factors and he missed the call.

In the end the trail has responsibility to see the whole play. Or this needs to become reviewable. This possession like in the championship 2 years ago hurt Gonzaga. They seem to be on the blunt end of missed calls in big games. Trail needs to step back and get a better angle. If the shot is blocked then you act just like lead you step back to see more after the shot. Example Virgina Purdue. Lead official watched the line the entire way and made a great call down the stretch. In the GU game you can see where his head is which means field of vision. Lead and C can see the contact if there's a push he saw the blocked shot then needs to back out and see the play to be able to see it all. As a trail I'm looking for everything as a lead I'm rotating out to help trail because there's a fluster click going over there. But you can clearly see his entire foot is OOB, it's not like his toe was on the line. He jumped from OOB, there was enough delay to see where he was so and would've just taken a quick glance to make sure I see where he was. In a game like this it's huge to miss something like this and hurts teams.
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  #40 (permalink)  
Old Sun Mar 31, 2019, 12:40pm
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Originally Posted by AremRed View Post
Whatever dude I used this list: 2018-19 NCAA Division I College Basketball Player Statistics - ESPN

It does have Moretti as #2 on the season at .933, I transcribed it incorrectly in my first post.
That list isn't all games.

My point was that https://www.ncaa.com/stats/basketbal...individual/142, which supposedly include all games for all teams is incorrect.
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  #41 (permalink)  
Old Sun Mar 31, 2019, 01:32pm
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actually, ball was dead when thrower in was hit on the arm. so
T Tech rightfully got to select the FT shooter. I think.
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  #42 (permalink)  
Old Sun Mar 31, 2019, 01:50pm
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Originally Posted by thedewed View Post
actually, ball was dead when thrower in was hit on the arm. so
T Tech rightfully got to select the FT shooter. I think.
dewed if you read any of the other posts it's not a dead ball T unless he hits the ball. He hit the arm which in NFHS is an intentional foul 2 shots and the ball at POI. In NCAA it should've been ruled a common foul for making contact with the thrower then upgraded to a Flagrant 1. Which means Mooney would've been the one shooting. But even if the deemed it to be a tech it's a class B T which is 1 shot and the ball and whomever they choose. So either way they administered this wrong.
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  #43 (permalink)  
Old Sun Mar 31, 2019, 02:29pm
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Originally Posted by Fuelrider View Post
dewed if you read any of the other posts it's not a dead ball T unless he hits the ball. He hit the arm which in NFHS is an intentional foul 2 shots and the ball at POI. In NCAA it should've been ruled a common foul for making contact with the thrower then upgraded to a Flagrant 1. Which means Mooney would've been the one shooting. But even if the deemed it to be a tech it's a class B T which is 1 shot and the ball and whomever they choose. So either way they administered this wrong.
I don't think that's right. foul on arm in that situation, dead ball contact foul, F1, anyone can shoot. Not positive but I'm pretty sure that's right based on reading the book. That's why I'm bringing it up for a revisit. Because everyone weighing in so far may be wrong.
Actually I'm not sure. F1 personal contact foul include contact with player making the throw in, but Class A tech includes unnecessary , excessive nature. I suppose the better interpretation is the player that got fouled shoots, that is more direct language.
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  #44 (permalink)  
Old Sun Mar 31, 2019, 02:40pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by thedewed View Post
I don't think that's right. foul on arm in that situation, dead ball contact foul, F1, anyone can shoot. Not positive but I'm pretty sure that's right based on reading the book. That's why I'm bringing it up for a revisit. Because everyone weighing in so far may be wrong.

Actually I'm not sure. F1 personal contact foul include contact with player making the throw in, but Class A tech includes unnecessary , excessive nature. I suppose the better interpretation is the player that got fouled shoots, that is more direct language.
You are incorrect. Several have already typed the correct adjudication.

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  #45 (permalink)  
Old Sun Mar 31, 2019, 02:48pm
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Originally Posted by Raymond View Post
You are incorrect. Several have already typed the correct adjudication.

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Yes, w/o a citation. it is AR 82 in casebook. W/o that there is some potential for confusion as a Class A tech includes 'unecessary contact' during a dead ball, and that penalty is 2 shots by anyone.
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