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  #46 (permalink)  
Old Sun Mar 31, 2019, 02:50pm
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Where are you getting "dead ball"? When inbounder has the ball, it is live. Foul was on arm. Higging signaled T immediately, IMO he was thinking the ball was hit. Anyway, either way, posters are correct in that it was administered incorrectly.

Hit thrower is intentional foul (NFHS) or Flagrant 1 (NCAAM). Thrower shoots 2 and they keep the ball. Hit ball is technical foul (NFHS - 2 shots, NCAAM - 1 shot). Anyone can shoot and team retains possession.

This play and the out of bounds play being discussed, will eventually be reviewable. These are two huge calls that had a tremendous impact on the game. It is only a matter of time before things like this are added to the list of reveiwable items. The player out of bounds was so obvious that only three people did not see it, the ones wearing the stripes. It is similar to the New Orleans Saints play IMO. Everyone saw the same, obvious infraction except the officials. The magnitude is not the same however.
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  #47 (permalink)  
Old Sun Mar 31, 2019, 02:51pm
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Originally Posted by thedewed View Post
I don't think that's right. foul on arm in that situation, dead ball contact foul, F1, anyone can shoot. Not positive but I'm pretty sure that's right based on reading the book. That's why I'm bringing it up for a revisit. Because everyone weighing in so far may be wrong.
Texas Tech is attempting to inbound the ball making the play "live." Contact with the inbounder is F1. Contact with the ball is a Class B Tech.
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  #48 (permalink)  
Old Sun Mar 31, 2019, 03:05pm
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Originally Posted by dahoopref View Post
Texas Tech is attempting to inbound the ball making the play "live." Contact with the inbounder is F1. Contact with the ball is a Class B Tech.
yes that's right now that you mention it. I think that was changed a few years ago from dead to live ball. Thanks,
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  #49 (permalink)  
Old Sun Mar 31, 2019, 03:22pm
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Originally Posted by thedewed View Post
yes that's right now that you mention it. I think that was changed a few years ago from dead to live ball. Thanks,
No, it wasn't changed. This has been a live ball situation for decades (perhaps since the times of Naismith).

It has been a widely held myth that live ball means in bounds. Perhaps you were one of those believe the myth for a long time.
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  #50 (permalink)  
Old Sun Mar 31, 2019, 04:05pm
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what I'm thinking of is whether a foul on court before ball is thrown in is considered team control or not. Didn't used to be, now is I believe.
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  #51 (permalink)  
Old Sun Mar 31, 2019, 04:32pm
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Originally Posted by thedewed View Post
Yes, w/o a citation. it is AR 82 in casebook. W/o that there is some potential for confusion as a Class A tech includes 'unecessary contact' during a dead ball, and that penalty is 2 shots by anyone.
There has never been confusion for me, especially since a throw-in is not a dead ball. You do realize some of us you are speaking to actually officiate games with NCAA rules right?

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  #52 (permalink)  
Old Sun Mar 31, 2019, 04:36pm
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Originally Posted by thedewed View Post
I saw the aftermath in the studio and the rules analyst Gene said to the rest of the panel, mostly former college/NBA players, that after the block and coming down out of bounds, that player would need to get BOTH feet back in bounds before he could again touch the ball. But that isn't the rule, right?
Steratore also said the officials got the "technical" right for defender hitting the ball OOB on the throw-in -- even though replay was obvious he hit the guy's arm -- and then literally like a second later, the official came over to broadcast table and told them "Flagrant 1 for contact with the thrower" and Gene was like "Ohh yeaah, if they're saying he hit the thrower, then yes, it would be a Flagrant 1."

Gene wasn't exactly setting the world on fire with his observational skills or rules knowledge, at least for this game.
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  #53 (permalink)  
Old Sun Mar 31, 2019, 04:38pm
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And it seems to me that, at this stage in the season, with the stakes for the schools, and a 4th official sitting there, there is zero excuse for misapplication of the rules happening. Good grief.
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  #54 (permalink)  
Old Sun Mar 31, 2019, 04:41pm
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JRut, any way when you clip the Flagrant 1 for contact with the inbounder, you can also separately clip like a minute later (after the table review or crew discussion I forget which it was), just for the audio of what the official says to the broadcast crew?

All one clip would probably be too long due to the delay for the review/discussion, but would definitely be instructive. Thanks!
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  #55 (permalink)  
Old Sun Mar 31, 2019, 04:59pm
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So many people perpetuating this "technical" myth:

Zags' Perkins rues 'bonehead' tech late in loss

That's not what happened, that's not what they called (other than the initial T signal, which I don't blame Higgins for he had the whistle, which is most important), and that's not how it was administered, even if it was still done incorrectly.
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  #56 (permalink)  
Old Mon Apr 01, 2019, 09:54am
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Originally Posted by IUgrad92 View Post
How does that happen? His entire foot was pretty much out.....

Too much ball watching by T.
Back to the OOB. If you are the L and for whatever reason you see this. Do you come and get it?
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  #57 (permalink)  
Old Mon Apr 01, 2019, 10:20am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sdoebler View Post
Back to the OOB. If you are the L and for whatever reason you see this. Do you come and get it?
Heck yes. Call it a 'crew call' or whatever you want, just get it right! To be the L and not get it would not allow me to sleep that night, especially in this particular situation where it absolutely was a possession consequence.

Personally, I don't see how getting a call correct, no matter who comes in to get it, makes the crew look bad or less knowledgeable. Every pre-game I have, I tell my partners that my feelings/ego will not be hurt if you come in to get something in front of me or come in to reverse a call I've made. As long as it's the CORRECT call.
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  #58 (permalink)  
Old Mon Apr 01, 2019, 03:54pm
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Originally Posted by IUgrad92 View Post
Personally, I don't see how getting a call correct, no matter who comes in to get it, makes the crew look bad or less knowledgeable.
Try telling that to the Lead official in the MHSAA State Final game involving Iron Mountain.
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  #59 (permalink)  
Old Mon Apr 01, 2019, 07:42pm
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Originally Posted by bucky View Post
Try telling that to the Lead official in the MHSAA State Final game involving Iron Mountain.
Apples and oranges. That high school game was one official replacing his judgment for that of the official closest to the play on a play that may or may not have been a travel.

An out-of-bounds this obvious is for anyone to come get if they see it.

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  #60 (permalink)  
Old Mon Apr 01, 2019, 10:26pm
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Originally Posted by bucky View Post
Try telling that to the Lead official in the MHSAA State Final game involving Iron Mountain.
This is the idea of communication with your partners, rather than taking a call. On an OOB play that is that obvious I prefer to see an official come in and the officials talk about the call to make sure they get the correct call. With the Iron Mountain play I think it would have looked better if the officials had gotten together to make a call given the importance of that moment in the game.

I don't like when it appears that one official is taking over a game, even if the calls are ultimately correct (which it wasn't in the IM game).
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