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Old Tue Feb 12, 2019, 01:03am
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Legal Guarding position or Blocking Foul? (Video)



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Old Tue Feb 12, 2019, 01:09am
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From the first angle, I thought that the defender got there. However, from the endline view, no. He was still moving in to the path after the shooter jumped.
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Old Tue Feb 12, 2019, 08:14am
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PC or no call. He gets his feet to a spot on floor before the shooter gets off the ground. He can turn so that's not on him.

If you want to argue he got the spot but wasn't squared up to the shooter before contact so he never established LGP then you can pass on the charge and go no call if that's your bag.

I still don't feel like shooter is responsible for the contact. He gave him time and space to catch and land, now the player with the ball has no expectation of time and space and has to expect to be guarded must be able to stop. Not punishing d for getting to spot before the offense and the offense going through them anyway.
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Old Tue Feb 12, 2019, 08:53am
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Pc
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Old Tue Feb 12, 2019, 09:15am
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Close. In slow motion the defender is there before shooter goes airborne. In real time speed the defender appears to get there a split second too late.

My concern is that the Lead guessed b/c when he rotated his eyes were directed towards the on-ball match up in front of his partner instead of towards the paint where he had 2 potential secondary defenders moving into his primary.
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Old Tue Feb 12, 2019, 12:23pm
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Blocking foul
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Old Tue Feb 12, 2019, 12:42pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bucky View Post
Blocking foul
What do you have D doing wrong?
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Old Tue Feb 12, 2019, 12:54pm
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Originally Posted by Pantherdreams View Post
What do you have D doing wrong?
Since I also said block....he got his feet down for sure but his torso was not yet in the path until after the shooter jumped. You don't own a spot until your body is over it....your feet only mark the space you own if they are inside your shoulders. Therefore, he didn't have LGP in time.
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Old Tue Feb 12, 2019, 01:58pm
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The defender clearly got in front of the cutter/ball handler. Now in live time this was very close. But his feet are both "set" which is not a requirement and not sure what his torso has to do when both your feet are planted in the ground?

This to me was a charge all the way. I think the lead rotated last and did not see the defender clearly and defaulted and called a foul on the defender as we tend to do.

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Old Tue Feb 12, 2019, 02:11pm
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Not sure I see it that way but I see what you are saying.

However I would still contend that even if he may not have established (LGP which I think he did) by not squaring his chest into the path in time wouldn't mean it has to be block. The title of the OP only gives us those two options but there are alternatives and the shooter is choosing to leave his feet through space that is occupied whether its by a player in LGP or not doesn't mean it has to be a block. Players are still entitled to a spot on the floor and the intent of the rules has never been to penalize with fouls for getting jumped or run into by the player with the ball.

Its bang bang and we are splitting hairs through slow motion replay. I probably would have called PC but if I'm on a crew with a guy who says he saw a block on a play like this I'm not arguing.
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Old Tue Feb 12, 2019, 03:52pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JRutledge View Post
The defender clearly got in front of the cutter/ball handler. Now in live time this was very close. But his feet are both "set" which is not a requirement and not sure what his torso has to do when both your feet are planted in the ground?

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Both feet must be on the floor to obtain LGP...you know that. The player must also be in the path...that means torso in the path, not the feet. The space occupied is defined by the body (torso). The feet being down defines the time that the position of the body becomes legal. It does not allow the body to continue to move to a new space if it is too late to do so.

Quote:
Guarding is the act of legally placing the body in the path of an offensive opponent.....

A player who extends an arm, shoulder, hip or leg into the path of an opponent is not considered to have a legal position if contact occurs.
By rule, the player is only legally occupying the space their body is in when the feet come down. They do not legally occupy the space over the feet without the body being over them.
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Last edited by Camron Rust; Tue Feb 12, 2019 at 03:57pm.
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Old Tue Feb 12, 2019, 04:18pm
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It would be one thing if he was leaning all the way over to make contact, but that is not what happened. It sounds like you are trying to require that he is totally still before any contact takes place. Sorry, but that is not how I read the rules on this situation.

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Old Tue Feb 12, 2019, 04:44pm
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Would this be a block of the "straight block" variety or of the "block-point" (block because of restricted area) variety? I would have either, because the defender's right foot is in the restricted area when he is trying to establish position on the offensive player. I also have the defender failing to beat the offensive player to the spot before the offensive player goes airborne. Thus, I cannot call this play a charge.
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Old Tue Feb 12, 2019, 04:55pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ilyazhito View Post
... I would have either, because the defender's right foot is in the restricted area when he is trying to establish position on the offensive player...
You must be watching this on a phone, because on my 19" desktop monitor the defender is clearly outside of the RA.
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Old Tue Feb 12, 2019, 05:53pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JRutledge View Post
It would be one thing if he was leaning all the way over to make contact, but that is not what happened. It sounds like you are trying to require that he is totally still before any contact takes place. Sorry, but that is not how I read the rules on this situation.

Peace
Nah, I don't care if he is still or not, but I want the body to be in the path before the shooter jumps as is required by the rule. If the body is still moving sideways or backwards, I don't care, I'll still have a PC if the body got into the path in time. Otherwise the defender has not met the requirements of LGP and I'm not fudging the requirements to favor a defender that is late if it means calling a charge instead. However, if it is an option, I might pass on the contact.
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