Legal Guarding Position (Video)

[xyrph]

I have a question regarding the use of hands by a defender after OBTAINING Legal Guarding Position.

If the defender uses her hands to grab (or attempt to grab) the ball does this impact the decision of whether the official calls a charge, a block, or nothing at all?

I have two video examples where our point guard obtains LGP and then successfully takes the ball from the ball handler. Both examples are edited into the same video clip.

For the first one, to my eyes, the defender only touches the ball and yet the official calls the foul. From an instructional perspective, I would like to know if the defender did anything wrong here?

In the second example, the defender does the same action, but no foul is called. So does "going for the ball" while in LGP make the scenario a defensive foul?

Thank you.

Here is the video...

[Mark T. DeNucci, Sr.]

Originally Posted by xyrph

I have a question regarding the use of hands by a defender after OBTAINING Legal Guarding Position.

If the defender uses her hands to grab (or attempt to grab) the ball does this impact the decision of whether the official calls a charge, a block, or nothing at all?

I have two video examples where our point guard obtains LGP and then successfully takes the ball from the ball handler. Both examples are edited into the same video clip.

For the first one, to my eyes, the defender only touches the ball and yet the official calls the foul. From an instructional perspective, I would like to know if the defender did anything wrong here?

In the second example, the defender does the same action, but no foul is called. So does "going for the ball" while in LGP make the scenario a defensive foul?

Thank you.

Here is the video...

Play 1: W4 had not obtained a LGP with respect to B4 because W4 was moving toward B4 when contact occurred. W4 has committed a Pushing Foul, which in this case is a CF.

Play 2: W4 does not have a LGP with respect to B24 but B24 has committed a Charging Foul (a CF) because W4 did have a legal position on the court and was therefore screening against B24.

MTD, Sr.

[Remington]

Originally Posted by Mark T. DeNucci, Sr.

Play 1: W4 had not obtained a LGP with respect to B4 because W4 was moving toward B4 when contact occurred. W4 has committed a Pushing Foul, which in this case is a CF.

Play 2: W4 does not have a LGP with respect to B24 but B24 has committed a Charging Foul (a CF) because W4 did have a legal position on the court and was therefore screening against B24.

MTD, Sr.

And, B24 travels before she commits the PC foul. Sometimes those are the best "gets" in these plays........but don't make one up! Good play for discussion!

[Mark T. DeNucci, Sr.]

Originally Posted by Remington

And, B24 travels before she commits the PC foul. Sometimes those are the best "gets" in these plays........but don't make one up! Good play for discussion!

Remington:

Please read and study NFHS R4-S44.

MTD, Sr.


P.S. Not even Tom Lopes would call that traveling.

[so cal lurker]

Originally Posted by Remington

And, B24 travels before she commits the PC foul. Sometimes those are the best "gets" in these plays........but don't make one up! Good play for discussion!

?? Where do you get a travel out of that before the charge?!?

[bob jenkins]

Originally Posted by xyrph

So does "going for the ball" while in LGP make the scenario a defensive foul?

"Going for the ball" and LGP are different rules. One has nothing to do with the other.

A player with (or without) LGP can commit an illegal use of hands or a holding foul.

I didn't watch the videos to make any specific comments on the plays.

[SNIPERBBB]

For teaching purposes, if your players are going to reach out for a ball that is close to the offensive players' chest like in these plays, they are putting themselves in a extremely high % chance of causing a foul with little real chance of getting a steal.

[Mark T. DeNucci, Sr.]

Originally Posted by SNIPERBBB

For teaching purposes, if your girls are going to reach out for a ball that is close to the offensive players' chest like in these plays, they are putting themselves in a extremely high % chance of causing a foul with little real chance of getting a steal.

SniperBBB:

I highly suggest that you delete your post before a woman coach that knows you post as SniperBBB reads it because your statement was very sexist.

MTD, Sr.

[SNIPERBBB]

how sexist of you to notice...

[BigCat]

White 4 runs at player and throws her arms at her. The result is UGLY. The official who calls the foul is blocked and really cant see the contact or lack thereof. But from his view, something was there.

As a coach, id tell my player, your 4, run to offense and stop. There's a trap there. We've got her. She doesnt stop and throws her arms in. Happens fast. Looks like a foul. Ugly foul. Of course there's going to be a call. Choice is foul or travel.

You can look at it in slow mo and say it wasnt a foul but at full speed it certainly does. What i say is if you, a player, do something like this which cant be ignored..im going to make a choice...im part of the game. You might not like the choice i make. Better play is for her to trap offense rather than run and attack it with arms like she does,

[BigCat]

Play two. I cant really see it but id bet your house that white 4 fouled her originally. Ball goes to other offense player and she runs in to 4. If i didnt have foul On 4 before i would on the second contact. Purple then loses control and then falls. It wasnt a travel.

I would guess id have a foul on white 4 for first play.

[Mark T. DeNucci, Sr.]

Originally Posted by BigCat

Play two. I cant really see it but id bet your house that white 4 fouled her originally. Ball goes to other offense player and she runs in to 4. If i didnt have foul On 4 before i would on the second contact. Purple then loses control and then falls. It wasnt a travel.

I would guess id have a foul on white 4 for first play.

Big Cat:

Regarding the second play. Please re-read the definition of screening with regard to the contact between W-4 and B-32.

MTD, Sr.

[BigCat]

Originally Posted by Mark T. DeNucci, Sr.

Big Cat:

Regarding the second play. Please re-read the definition of screening with regard to the contact between W-4 and B-32.

MTD, Sr.

I have a foul on white 4 and i dont think its close. Up to you what you call. Calling this a screen is fitting a square peg in a round hole.

[Rich]

Originally Posted by BigCat

Play two. I cant really see it but id bet your house that white 4 fouled her originally. Ball goes to other offense player and she runs in to 4. If i didnt have foul On 4 before i would on the second contact. Purple then loses control and then falls. It wasnt a travel.

I would guess id have a foul on white 4 for first play.

Was my guess watching the video, too.

[Mark T. DeNucci, Sr.]

Originally Posted by BigCat

I have a foul on white 4 and i dont think its close. Up to you what you call. Calling this a screen is fitting a square peg in a round hole.

I am not going to debate whether this is a blocking foul or a charging foul, but based upon your comment about screening and "a square peg in a round hole" leads me to believe that you do not understand the guarding and screening rules.

1) The guarding rule applies only to the five defensive players. The guarding rule is in effect when one of the teams has team control of the ball. If neither team has team control of the ball then the guarding rule is not in effect.

2) The screening rule applies to all of the ten players on the court at all times whether or not there is team control of the ball by a team. That means that defensive players can (and do set screens).

Whether you judge W-4 or B-32 to be guilty of the foul, in this case, the screening rule and not the guarding rule is the rule that you must apply.

MTD, Sr.