Nine second rim hang = no call

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by Raymond

Or after the ball becomes live again which it never did in this situation

Because of the immediate timeout. Good point. So maybe the rule reads that an NBA player can hang on the ring for a prolonged period of time as long as the ball doesn't become live again during the prolonged hang? Maybe had a timeout not been taken, and if the ball had been at the disposal of the other team, thus live ball, it would have been a technical foul? So an NBA player can never be charged with excessively hanging on the ring as long as the ball is dead, and remains dead during the "hang time", and as long as there isn't taunting, or a delay of game?

If that's the rule, then the L2M Report seems logical.

[Altor]

Having never read the NBA rulebook in my life, but reading what ilyazhito has been saying about seemingly back-to-back sections of Rule 12-IV. This interpretation should be consistent with those rules. Unless there is another section about a player that is neither offensive nor defensive hanging on the rim, it would be logical that those two sections could only be applied during a live ball.

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by Altor

Having never read the NBA rulebook in my life, but reading what ilyazhito has been saying about seemingly back-to-back sections of Rule 12-IV. This interpretation should be consistent with those rules. Unless there is another section about a player that is neither offensive nor defensive hanging on the rim, it would be logical that those two sections could only be applied during a live ball.

Originally Posted by ilyazhito

NBA Rulebook Rule 12-IV-a ... an offensive player who deliberately hangs on his basket ring, net backboard, or support during the game shall be assessed a non-unsportsmanlike technical foul ... a defensive player may not deliberately hang on the ring.

Thanks ilyazhito and Raymond.

As a high school basketball official, I really don't care very much about NBA rules, but as a scientist, I do care about logic.

That dead ball comment from the L2M Report has been a bee in my bonnet since the original post of the L2M Report.

Hopefully the bee has moved on to somebody else's bonnet.

[Raymond]

Originally Posted by BillyMac

Thanks ilyazhito.

That dead ball comment from the L2M Report has been a bee in my bonnet since the original post of the L2M Report. Hopefully the bee has moved on to somebody else's bonnet.

Basing your opinions on ilyazhito's thoughts will get you stung.

He has yet to post a ruling that applies to this situation. Shoot, he didn't even know the ball never became live or that it bounded out towards the division line.

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by Raymond

He has yet to post a ruling that applies to this situation.

Didn't he post this: NBA Rulebook Rule 12-IV-a ... an offensive player who deliberately hangs on his basket ring, net backboard, or support during the game shall be assessed a non-unsportsmanlike technical foul ... a defensive player may not deliberately hang on the ring.

Originally Posted by ilyazhito

... timeout can only be called by a player or head coach of the team in control.

He may have had a brain hiccup on the made basket/dead ball/timeout situation?

[Raymond]

Originally Posted by BillyMac

Didn't he post this: NBA Rulebook Rule 12-IV-a ... an offensive player who deliberately hangs on his basket ring, net backboard, or support during the game shall be assessed a non-unsportsmanlike technical foul ... a defensive player may not deliberately hang on the ring.



He may have had a brain hiccup on the made basket/dead ball/timeout situation?

LeBron was neither a defensive player nor an offensive player; the ball was dead, which has been repeated by me ad nauseam. The ball being dead for a time-out has explicitly been stated as ONE of the reasons LeBron was not T'd up. Your buddy has yet to post a ruling concerning hanging on the rim during a time-out, intermission, or pre-game. What is so difficult to understand about that?

After the made dunk shot, James (LAL) remains on the rim after the timeout is called and players have cleared the area under the rim. The ball is dead and he is not taunting or delaying the game

[Altor]

Originally Posted by Raymond

Basing your opinions on ilyazhito's thoughts will get you stung.

He has yet to post a ruling that applies to this situation.

My comment was based on what I assumed were fairly direct quotes from the NBA rulebook. Those were the only parts of his post that I took any credence in since they appeared to be from a source that wasn't ilyazhito .

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by Raymond

What is so difficult to understand about that?

It was a group effort to bring us all to the same interpretation.

bucky started the thread and provided the video:

Originally Posted by bucky

https://youtu.be/5N2XdRsrMeo

Altor provided the Last Two Minute Report.

Originally Posted by Altor

Last two-minute report

ilyazhito provided the NBA rule citations.

Originally Posted by ilyazhito

NBA Rulebook Rule 12-IV-a says that an offensive player who deliberately hangs on his basket ring, net backboard, or support during the game shall be assessed a non-unsportsmanlike technical foul.

Originally Posted by ilyazhito

Rule 12-IV states that a defensive player may not deliberately hang on the ring.

Raymond provided the very important clarification that there is a dead ball exception to the NBA rule posted by ilyazhito.

Originally Posted by Raymond

... find the rule that states an NBA player can't hang on the rim during a dead ball ...

Originally Posted by Raymond

Or after the ball becomes live again which it never did in this situation

Yes, there were some wrong turns along our path, some initiated by me, but we eventually got to where we wanted to go.

It turned out to be an interesting trip.

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by Raymond

... the ball was dead ... The ball being dead for a time-out has explicitly been stated as ONE of the reasons LeBron was not T'd up.

Yes it was, but there were two dovetailing dead ball periods, both leading to correct no-calls for possible technical fouls.

The first dead ball and correct no-call for a technical foul had nothing to do with the timeout but has to do with the dead ball immediately after the successful goal.

It was the timeout that prevented the ball from becoming live, continuing the status of the ball being dead, and thus the correct no-call for a technical foul.

[bucky]

Originally Posted by BillyMac

So an NBA player can never be charged with excessively hanging on the ring as long as the ball is dead, and remains dead during the "hang time", and as long as there isn't taunting, or a delay of game?

If that's the rule, then the L2M Report seems logical.

Billy, please do not fall into the same trap as others. Always try to read all posts/information provided. (unless you are goading). Conflicting/inconsistent L2Ms have already been provided that answer your question. Regarding the same play(and player), the NBA indicates a T should have been called and in another it does not. That is one point of the entire thread. Where else will we ever see someone hang on the rim for 9 seconds (I liked how LBJ even looked around at one point) and T not be called? I am curious as to the what the longest rim hang has ever been during a play in a game. I have seen some good hang times with players tangled up or on the floor under the rim, but never something like 9 seconds.

[bucky]

Originally Posted by BillyMac

Yes it was, but there were two dovetailing dead ball periods, both leading to correct no-calls for possible technical fouls.

The first dead ball and correct no-call for a technical foul had nothing to do with the timeout but has to do with the dead ball immediately after the successful goal.

It was the timeout that prevented the ball from becoming live, continuing the status of the ball being dead, and thus the correct no-call for a technical foul.

This was merely what the NBA provided as a comment. Furthermore, as I have provided, the NBA has also commented where a T should have been called (during same dead ball period after made basket and TO) but it was not. Therein lies one of the inconsistencies. Fun isn't it?

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by bucky

Conflicting/inconsistent L2Ms have already been provided that answer your question. Regarding the same play (and player), the NBA indicates a T should have been called and in another it does not.

Inconsistencies/Conflicts may be logical, or illogical, but they're still inconsistencies/conflicts, and therein may lie the underlying problem within this thread.

Originally Posted by bucky

... as I have provided, the NBA has also commented where a T should have been called (during same dead ball period after made basket and TO) but it was not.

Provided? Where? Did I miss something? I would love to see some of these inconsistent/conflicting L2M Reports regarding the same play and the same player, and how the NBA explains the plays. I don't even need the same player, just the same play will do.

As an official, former coach, and a basketball fan, I don't like King James hanging on the ring for nine seconds, but if the NBA allows it by rule, and isn't just the interpretation of the NBA official on site that night, then there's nothing we can do about it, other than turn off the game on television (instead watch Crickey! It's the Irwins, my new favorite show), not attend the games, and not purchase anything that's advertised during the games.

[Raymond]

Apparently I missed something also. Must be written in invisible ink somewhere, this conflicting L2M.

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[Raymond]

Originally Posted by Raymond

Apparently I missed something also. Must be written in invisible ink somewhere, this conflicting L2M.

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And posting completely different plays where players do completely different things (a chin up where legs go parallel to the floor and next to the rim/a player trying to rip the rim out the backboard) that look nothing like what LeBron James did on this play is not a conflicting L2M report. It's just somebody who doesn't know how to admit they're wrong.

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[ilyazhito]

Here is a video from the NBA Video Rulebook about hanging on the rim. Technical Foul, player hangs on the rim | NBA Video Rulebook
The transcript says that "Players are not allowed to pull themselves up on the rim, nor are they allowed to hang on the rim following a dunk attempt, unless they are doing so to avoid injury to themselves or another player. The NBA video rulebook does not mention a dead-ball exception, nor can I find one in the PDF version of the rulebook. Thus, hanging on the rim in the NBA rules is consistent with NFHS and NCAA.

Bucky may also be alluding to this video as the source of inconsistencies. If Bucky can bring up the L2M video where there should be a technical foul, we can have more of a conversation.