Nine second rim hang = no call

[bucky]

I am sure most have seen it by now. Lebron James dunked a ball and hung on the rim, with no one around him, for 9 seconds. Yes, he was clearly drawing attention to himself. ESPN timed it and questioned the no call of a technical foul. I wonder if the refs would have acted the same if Alex Caruso had done that? NBA, gotta love it, lol.

[BillyMac]

I've got the videotape:

https://youtu.be/8z8SpgmF0sA

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by BillyMac

I've got the videotape:

https://youtu.be/8z8SpgmF0sA

Can I nominate myself for Post O' The Month?

[bucky]

Thanks for keeping us abreast of the situation.

Fast forward to the 1:00 mark.

https://youtu.be/5N2XdRsrMeo

[Altor]

Last two-minute report

00:15.8 Foul: Hanging Technical LeBron James CNC
After the made dunk shot, James (LAL) remains on the rim after the timeout is called and players have cleared the area under the rim. The ball is dead and he is not taunting opponents or delaying the game

[ilyazhito]

This would be illegal in an NFHS or NCAA game, because he continues to hang long after he completes the initial act of the dunk, and there is no injury risk caused to him or others if LeBron lets go. Perhaps the NBA rule is different, but under the codes that most of us work, this play is illegal.

[Nevadaref]

Originally Posted by ilyazhito

This would be illegal in an NFHS or NCAA game, because he continues to hang long after he completes the initial act of the dunk, and there is no injury risk caused to him or others if LeBron lets go. Perhaps the NBA rule is different, but under the codes that most of us work, this play is illegal.

You clearly don't get it. The NBA is about providing entertainment to make $. The league doesn't give a damn about player behavior, sportsmanship, or rules. They want butts in the seats, people watching on TV, and advertisers paying for commercials. The attitude is that people aren't watching to see the officials call traveling. Now why would you think that the league admins would want officials calling techs on the most talented players for hanging on the ring when everyone is watching to see those guys do exactly that.

[Raymond]

Someone already posted the L2M report from the NBA, so everyone's personal speculations are rather moot at this point.

[scrounge]

As the report said, he wasn't taunting and it was during a TO. Who cares?

On the top 10 list of things an NBA ref has to worry about, this is #93.

Originally Posted by Nevadaref

The league doesn't give a damn about player behavior, sportsmanship, or rules.

They 100% care about these things, albeit mostly in relation to making dat $$$. Although it's pretty clear they also care about respect for the referee more than any other sport with the number and amount of fines they dish out for technicals, criticizing referees performance, etc. which doesn't have any direct monetary benefit for them.

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by Raymond

... so everyone's personal speculations are rather moot at this point.

Originally Posted by scrounge

Who cares?

Who? Those of us who may not officiate NBA basketball, who may only officiate high school basketball, and who want to understand why this situation my be legal in an NBA game, and not legal in a NFHS game.

In a NFHS game, the timeout, the not taunting opponents, and the not delaying the game aspects of the NBA ruling have little to do with the NFHS rule (players clearing the area under the rim is relevant in NFHS rules. I'm not sure what the NBA means by it's legal because it's during a dead ball, doesn't most ring grasping take place during the dead ball period immediately after a dunk).

NFHS: A player shall not: Grasp either basket at any time during the game except to prevent injury.

Any time during the game could mean pregame, halftime, postgame (before officials leave the court), intermissions (all by bench personnel), or during dead balls, or timeouts.

Coaches, players, and fans will see this legal NBA play on television and wonder why it's illegal in a high school game.

That's why some of us care. Goodnight moon.

[ilyazhito]

Originally Posted by Nevadaref

You clearly don't get it. The NBA is about providing entertainment to make $. The league doesn't give a damn about player behavior, sportsmanship, or rules. They want butts in the seats, people watching on TV, and advertisers paying for commercials. The attitude is that people aren't watching to see the officials call traveling. Now why would you think that the league admins would want officials calling techs on the most talented players for hanging on the ring when everyone is watching to see those guys do exactly that.

How is hanging on the rim related to the game? I understand making a dunk, but hanging on for a long time is showing off, and is not an effective form of defense. I want to be an NBA official, because I believe that these guys are the best in the business, and I want to challenge myself to be at their level.

[Raymond]

Originally Posted by BillyMac

Who? Those of us who may not officiate NBA basketball, who may only officiate high school basketball, and who want to understand why this situation my be legal in an NBA game, and not legal in a NFHS game.

In a NFHS game, the timeout, the not taunting opponents, and the not delaying the game aspects of the NBA ruling have little to do with the NFHS rule (players clearing the area under the rim is relevant in NFHS rules. I'm not sure what the NBA means by it's legal because it's during a dead ball, doesn't most ring grasping take place during the dead ball period immediately after a dunk).

NFHS: A player shall not: Grasp either basket at any time during the game except to prevent injury.

Any time during the game could mean pregame, halftime, postgame (before officials leave the court), intermissions (all by bench personnel), or during dead balls, or timeouts.

Coaches, players, and fans will see this legal NBA play on television and wonder why it's illegal in a high school game.

That's why some of us care. Goodnight moon.

Well, if you care, then you should have read by now the post from Altor that states why it is legal in the NBA. So my point stands that all the personal speculation is moot. We have a ruling and a source. The rest is just the normal b!tching and moaning about the NBA, and in your case, a failure to read the pertinent post.

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by Raymond

Well, if you care, then you should have read by now the post from Altor that states why it is legal in the NBA ... and in your case, a failure to read the pertinent post.

I read all about the NBA rules making this ring grasp legal. Now we have all been reminded why this is illegal in NFHS rules.

If I failed to read the pertinent post, how would I know this:

Originally Posted by BillyMac

... the timeout, the not taunting opponents, and the not delaying the game aspects of the NBA ruling have little to do with the NFHS rule (players clearing the area under the rim is relevant in NFHS rules. I'm not sure what the NBA means by it's legal because it's during a dead ball, doesn't most ring grasping take place during the dead ball period immediately after a dunk).

If I'm allowed to speculate, what does the NBA mean by it's legal because it's during a dead ball, doesn't most ring grasping take place during the dead ball period immediately after a dunk?

From the NBA: The ball is dead and he is not taunting opponents or delaying the game.

Does the NBA define dead ball differently than the NFHS? I guess that that is possible.

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by ilyazhito

How is hanging on the rim related to the game? I understand making a dunk, but hanging on for a long time is showing off, and is not an effective form of defense.

Damage to the rings/backboards, and injuries to the players.

Throughout the history of the game of basketball, certain players have held enormous physical advantages that completely changed the way the game was played on both offense and defense. These players were so dominant that they caused many rule changes, rule changes that were supposed to reduce the dominance of these gifted players to make their style of play a bit fairer to other players. Most of these rule changes were originally instituted in NCAA, or NBA games, but these changes eventually trickled down to NFHS rules.

When Lew Alcindor (Kareem Abdul Jabbar) (UCLA 1966-1969, NBA 1969-1989) started playing basketball for UCLA Bruins, NCAA officials felt that the seven foot, two inch All-American center, being especially tall and athletic, could place the ball over the rim and throw it through the hoop with ease. This feat of athleticism which we all know as the dunk and seems so routine was not so routine back in the mid-1960’s. It was considered unfair that he could do it so easily. So the NCAA banned dunking in 1967. This was called the “Alcindor Rule”. Another reason dunking was outlawed was to prevent injury and equipment damage. A distorted rim could delay a game. As a result of the rule, Alcindor developed a great hook shot, the “Sky Hook”, which he used effectively during his playing days in college, and in the NBA. After multiple issues with the new rule and the invention of the breakaway rim the NCAA allowed the dunk to be legal again during 1976-1977 season which was shortly after UCLA Coach John Wooden's retirement. The “Alcindor Rule” eventually trickled down to NFHS rules. In 1967, the NFHS banned dunking in high school basketball games. In 1970, the NFHS also prohibited dunking during pregame warmups. Like the NCAA, the NFHS reversed itself in 1976 and a rule change allowed dunking during the game but not during pregame warmups, nor during intermissions, and with a later rule change in 1978 outlawing dunking a dead ball.

Darryl Dawkins (NBA 1975-1989), the Philadelphia 76ers six foot, eleven inch, 251 pound center, in a game against the Kansas City Kings at Municipal Auditorium on November 13, 1979 dunked and broke the backboard sending the King’s Bill Robinzine ducking away. Three weeks later he did it again, this time at home against the San Antonio Spurs at the Spectrum. Thus, Dawkins became famous for his backboard shattering dunks and is credited for being the player to cause the NBA to introduce breakaway rims. Breakaway rims are now an essential element of the game of basketball. A broken backboard or distorted rim could delay a game for hours. In 1981 the NFHS adopted specifications for breakaway rims.

Shaquille O'Neal (LSU 1989-1992, NBA 1992-2011) a seven foot, one inch, 325 pound center, was one of the heaviest players ever to play in the NBA. O'Neal dunked with so much power that he broke the steel supports holding backboards during games against the New Jersey Nets and the Phoenix Suns while playing for the Orlando Magic during the 1992–93 NBA season. This prompted the NBA to increase the strength and stability of the backboard supports and change the stanchion design for the following 1993–94 season. The NFHS added backboard support specifications to the rules in 1996-97.