Nine second rim hang = no call

[Raymond]

Originally Posted by ilyazhito

Here is a video from the NBA Video Rulebook about hanging on the rim. Technical Foul, player hangs on the rim | NBA Video Rulebook
The transcript says that "Players are not allowed to pull themselves up on the rim, nor are they allowed to hang on the rim following a dunk attempt, unless they are doing so to avoid injury to themselves or another player. The NBA video rulebook does not mention a dead-ball exception, nor can I find one in the PDF version of the rulebook. Thus, hanging on the rim in the NBA rules is consistent with NFHS and NCAA.

Bucky may also be alluding to this video as the source of inconsistencies. If Bucky can bring up the L2M video where there should be a technical foul, we can have more of a conversation.

He retroactively posted videos of Draymond Green pulling himself and his entire body to rim level with his legs parallel to the ground and one of LeBron violently pulling the rim back and forth.

And you already posted that the NBA rules for hanging on the rim refer specifically to offensive and defensive players. During intermissions/timeouts/pre-games, there are no offensive or defensive players.

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by Raymond

During intermissions/timeouts/pre-games, there are no offensive or defensive players.

So, in the original play, it wasn't the dead ball (immediately after the successful goal) that allowed the ring grasp, but it was the immediate timeout that allowed the ring grasp?

So, why did the L2M Report mention dead ball? From the ilyazhito's video it's obvious that a technical foul for a ring grasping can be charged during a dead ball.

[Raymond]

Originally Posted by BillyMac

So, in the original play, it wasn't the dead ball (immediately after the successful goal) that allowed the ring grasp, but it was the immediate timeout that allowed the ring grasp?

So, why did the L2M Report mention dead ball? From the ilyazhito's video it's obvious that a technical foul for a ring grasping can be charged during a dead ball.

In the original play he is allowed to grasp the rim until all players have cleared out beneath him, just like in high school and college basketball. And by the time all players had cleared out the time out was called.

And what rules citation did your buddy post directly from the NBA rule book that said you cannot hang on the rim during a dead ball? Seems like you are selectively reading to further your point. He posted directly from the rulebook when he tried to make a case that an offensive player and the defensive player can't hang on the rim. Please show me his post citing a rule concerning dead balls and hanging on the rim.

I used to defend your buddy, but he's showing that he's more concerned with being right at all costs. I guarantee you he will get cussed out at least one time by an observer at a college camp with that type of attitude.

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[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by Raymond

Please show me his post citing a rule concerning dead balls and hanging on the rim.

While it doesn't show the important timeout exception, his recent NBA rule video seems to say that a technical foul can be charged for excessively grasping the ring during the dead ball immediately following a successful goal.

We're taking the circuitous route, with a lot of mistakes, and dead ends, and it hasn't been an easy path, but we're getting closer to the truth.

[Raymond]

Originally Posted by BillyMac

While it doesn't show the important timeout exception, his recent NBA rule video seems to say that a technical foul can be charged for excessively grasping the ring during the dead ball immediately following a successful goal.

We're taking the circuitous route, with a lot of mistakes, and dead ends, and it hasn't been an easy path, but we're getting closer to the truth.

He didn't post a video, bucky did. And I'll repeat for the umpteenth time, those videos showed a complete chin up with legs near the rim and parallel to the ground and LeBron violently shaking the rim multiple times. Are you not capable of seeing the difference between those 2 plays and LeBron simply hanging from the rim?

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by Raymond

He didn't post a video, bucky did.

ilyazhito posted the video and just as importantly, the transcript:

Originally Posted by ilyazhito

Here is a video from the NBA Video Rulebook about hanging on the rim. Technical Foul, player hangs on the rim | NBA Video Rulebook
The transcript says that "Players are not allowed to pull themselves up on the rim, nor are they allowed to hang on the rim following a dunk attempt, unless they are doing so to avoid injury to themselves or another player. The NBA video rulebook does not mention a dead-ball exception, nor can I find one in the PDF version of the rulebook.

From what I learned about NBA ring grasping from this thread, it is my belief that the following would have been more logical and clear L2M Report:

"After the made dunk shot, James (LAL) remains on the rim after the timeout is called. He is not taunting opponents, nor is he delaying the game."

The original references to players clearing the area under the rim and the ball being dead are irrelevant, superfluous, extraneous, not needed, and muck up the rationale for the correct no call, the simple rationale being it was during a timeout, and that there was no taunting, or delay of game. The ball being dead had nothing to do with the correct no call if Raymond is correct in that NBA players are allowed to grasp the ring during pregame, timeouts, intermissions, and post game.

[Raymond]

on the rim

"This is an example of a Technical Foul for hanging on the rim. Players are not allowed to pull themselves up on the rim, nor are they allowed to hang on the rim after a dunk attempt, unless they are doing so to avoid injury to themselves or another player. The offensive player on this play pulls himself up on the rim and kicks his legs into the air following his successful dunk. This type of reaction is an immediate technical foul for hanging on the rim."


They are allowed to hang on the rim until all the players beneath them clear. That was addressed in the L2M report on this particular play.

NBA is not shy about telling us when an official gets plays wrong. If the officials in this game got that played wrong the NBA would have said so. And if your buddy thinks that he's going to go into an NBA game and call a Tech on this play while his 30-year veteran crew chief doesn't, he is truly not too bright when it comes to the world of officiating.

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[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by Raymond

They are allowed to hang on the rim until all the players beneath them clear.

LeBron James was still hanging on the long after the players below him cleared. So why was he allowed to do so:

1) Timeout was immediately called.
2) He didn't taunt anyone.
3) He didn't delay the game.

"Clearing players" had a little to do with this correct no call situation, there were no players directly under James after the dunk, the closest one was there for only a second.

The "dead ball" had absolutely nothing to do with this correct no call situation and the mention of such mucked up the rationale and was irrelevant, superfluous, extraneous, and not needed in the L2M Report.

Once again here's BillyMac's L2M Report: "After the made dunk shot, James (LAL) remains on the rim after the timeout is called. He is not taunting opponents, nor is he delaying the game."

(if Raymond is correct in that NBA players are allowed to grasp the ring during pregame, timeouts, intermissions, and post game.)

[Raymond]

Originally Posted by BillyMac

LeBron James was still hanging on the long after the players below him cleared. So why was he allowed to do so:

1) Timeout was immediately called.
2) He didn't taunt anyone.
3) He didn't delay the game.

"Clearing players" had a little to do with this correct no call situation, there were no players under James after the dunk, the closest one was there for only a second.

The "dead ball" had absolutely nothing to do with this and the mention of such mucked up the rationale and was irrelevant, superfluous, extraneous, and not needed in the L2M Report.
...

Based on your extensive knowledge of NBA rules and the spirit and intent thereof? You have no idea if the ball being dead has anything to do with the ruling, because it is not explicitly stated in the rule book. It is addressed, however, in an official NBA communication concerning said play.

The L2M report for this particular game lists 4 incorrect decisions by the officials in a 42 second span. I guess this play's ruling is some nefarious plot or conspiracy by the NBA to protect the King. Geez.

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by Raymond

You have no idea if the ball being dead has anything to do with the ruling, because it is not explicitly stated in the rule book.

We've seen videos in this thread of players being called for this infraction during the dead ball period immediately after a successful goal. No apparent taunting. No apparent delay of game. That leads me to believe that excessive grasping is not allowed during dead balls.

Then, of course, we have this statement from the NBA: "Players are not allowed to pull themselves up on the rim, nor are they allowed to hang on the rim following a dunk attempt, unless they are doing so to avoid injury to themselves or another player".

It does list "unless" exceptions, but dead ball is not listed as an "unless" exception.

Absent taunting, or delay of game, I still believe that this correct no call was mainly due to the immediacy of the timeout.

Had there been no immediate timeout called, I believe that James could have been called for an excessive grasp of the ring, as we've seen by other players in other videos with no taunting, or no delay of game.

I do not have extensive knowledge of NBA rules, but I know how to read and how to logically understand factual information that is presented to me.

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by Raymond

I guess this play's ruling is some nefarious plot or conspiracy by the NBA to protect the King.

Though I facetiously posted about this, I actually believe that the no call was correct, a small part of the rationale was illogical and unclear, but the no call was correct, NBA players are probably allowed to grasp the ring during pregame, timeouts, intermissions, and post game.

[ilyazhito]

That might make sense if the NBA is an entertainment league (travels are frequently overlooked, NBA officials use mechanics that are not listed in the signal chart, and that look lazy, IMO), but NBA officials are still very accurate when it comes to play calling. I'd put an NBA crew on a D1 men's college game, and a top D1 crew on a G-League or NBA preseason game, just to see how they perform, though :-P.